This week on Wibbly Wobbly we discuss VILLAGE OF THE ANGELS and along the way we gush about the titular angels, Lucia defends Dan, Talia goes on two (2) fanfic tangents and furthermore is disgusted by people being nasty on main.
Talia Franks: Hello and welcome to the Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Podcast!
Lucia Kelly: I’m Lucia Kelly expert at applied analysis and I’m beginning to question the wisdom of barricading ourselves somewhere with so few exits.
Talia Franks: And I’m Talia Franks media critic, fanfic enthusiast, and I’ve never been more grateful for another man’s deceit.
Lucia Kelly: And we’re here today for a Wibbly Wobbly Minisode!
Talia Franks: Today we’ll be talking about Flux, Chapter Four: Village of the Angels, which aired on November 21st, 2021. It was written by Maxine Alderton and Chris Chibnall and directed by Jamie Magnus Stone.
Lucia Kelly: Reminder that time isn’t a straight line. It can twist into any shape and as such, this is a fully spoiled podcast. We might bring things in from later in the show, the comics, the books, the audiodramas, or even fan theories and articles.
Talia Franks: With that out of the way, we mustn’t get too bogged down by the order of things. So let’s get in the TARDIS.
Lucia Kelly: According to IMDB, the setting is Devon November, 1967. A little girl has gone missing professor Jericho is conducting psychic experiments, and in the graveyard, there’s one gravestone too many. Why is Medderton known as The Cursed Village and what do the Weeping Angels want?
Talia Franks: This is the one where the Weeping Angels are proper terrifying again, and we love it!
Lucia Kelly: It’s so good! Oh, my gosh, this episode was so good. I’m I’m, I’m glowing. I’m just, Ahhhhhhhh
Talia Franks: One, I don’t usually watch and two, I don’t usually like scary episodes or scary anything. I’m not really a horror person. I’m not really a thriller person. But. This was fantastic. Also that end scene, that transition (Lucia squeals) chef’s kiss.
Lucia Kelly: Everything about this episode it was chef’s kiss. I’m just, I only just watched it. So my, my brain is still kind of processing everything, but like everything about it was stunning. There are a few things that like, don’t quite add up, but I’m just going to put that down to Doctor Who-ness. Um, (Talia laughs) and also the fact that we still haven’t got like all the answers yet.
Lucia Kelly: Like I am, I’m waiting, I’m waiting for the moment, a fortnight from now where we will have all all of Flux. However, I have a sneak theory. (Talia laughs)
Talia Franks: Tell me your sneak theory.
Lucia Kelly: My sneak theory is not, everything’s going to be answered in Flux and this is going to extend into the specials.
Talia Franks: Yeah, same, I think part of it’s that, and I also think, if we get all the answers, it won’t be as good. I think part of the thing about Dr. Who that makes it good is having a little bit of mystery.
Lucia Kelly: Definitely.
Lucia Kelly: What I really loved about this episode is that we, after, after the nonsense that we have been through with the Weeping Angels is that we stripped it right back to what they were originally like. Right. So the problem that we’ve had in the past is that for some frickin reason, people looked at the Weeping Angels and were like, I think we can add to that, which was not the goal.
Lucia Kelly: The goal was not to add more features to the Weeping Angel. They were perfect monsters all by themselves. They did not need all this extra stuff, but so what they’ve done is they stripped it right back and then just given them more resources, but just more powerful because it’s like they’ve got more at their hand.
Lucia Kelly: It’s not that they’ve got more things it’s that they can do more things, which is the right way to go.
Talia Franks: Yeah. And I think this is, this is really indicative of what I’ve heard a lot of people say, which is Steven Moffatt is very good at concepts. He is not so great at execution.
Lucia Kelly: We’re all just, I’m just going to address the elephant in the room so we can then kick it out forever.
Lucia Kelly: We’re all thinking of Angels of Manhattan. Okay. We’re all thinking it. We’re, it’s going to be there forever. (Lucia sighs)
Talia Franks: Yeah, it’s funny that we’re talking about Angels take Manhattan because I just talked about on, Into the Archives, my favorite fanfic, which, undoes Angels take Manhattan? I’m not going to get into it cause I just had a whole Into the Archives episode about it.
Talia Franks: But my favorite thing about that fanfic is that it basically makes it so that Amy and Rory aren’t stuck in the past. Along with the fact that it’s an MCU crossover and a bunch of happens with the Avengers. Um, but, (Lucia laughs) the main thing that makes me love it is that Amy and Rory aren’t stuck in the past anymore.
Talia Franks: And like Amy reunites with the Twelfth Doctor and it’s really cute. And they get to know Bill and it’s really cute, but that’s besides.
Lucia Kelly: Listeners, listeners you should go and check out Into the Archives, you should go check that out and listen to Talia and their lovely guests talk all about fanfic. And in that particular episode, Angels of, Angels, I keep saying Angels of Manhattan, Angels Take Manhattan. Yeah. Angels Take Manhattan. So, yeah, we we’ve mentioned it when now banishing it back into it’s dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark cell, where it shall never return again, until we talk about it later. (Lucia laughs)
Talia Franks: No, but, okay. So I think the great thing about this episode was that it did take some of those elements of, the random powers that the angels had gotten in the past, but it actually made them interesting in that it worked them into the story, but the way that it worked them into the story wasn’t quite so, I feel like the word I want to say is extra, but that’s not quite it it’s more the way that the angels were in the story before was very,
Lucia Kelly: well overpowered.
Talia Franks: Yeah,
Lucia Kelly: like they kept, they kept giving them more powers, which was not like that’s not what makes the angels so terrifying that isn’t what makes them great monsters. What makes them great monsters. First of all. Okay. What makes the angels such good monsters? First of all, they’re something, they are both distinct and every day, right?
Lucia Kelly: Like they have a very specific particular look, but that image is taken directly from something that you will have seen a hundred thousand times before. So that’s the first thing that makes them a good monster is they’ve got a very distinctive but familiar shape. Mhmm The second thing is the quantum locking, which is just mmm!
Lucia Kelly: So, that’s such a good concept. Plus the fact, and I adore this, they do this in every Angel episode, which it makes more sense now that they’ve introduced the idea of how angels work in regards to recordings and television and things is that the audience are observe. So we’ll talk about this in more detail when we talk about Blink, but anytime the audience can see an angel, they also can’t move, which is super, ugh, just makes my little, my meta-loving my fourth wall breaking-loving heart, just buzz. Ahhh!
Talia Franks: I hadn’t even yeah. And I hadn’t even thought of that. That’s so cool. The other thing that, that makes me think of is how, like, a lot of the powers that they had in these episodes in this episode, like the angels already had.
Talia Franks: But instead of making these super powers, like overwhelming, they just made them tools that the Angels are able to use. And the Angels are still on like a level playing field. But at the same time, like everything that they do is just so cool in this episode also when the angel was lit on fire.
Lucia Kelly: Right!?
Talia Franks: Oh my gods that was wild.
Lucia Kelly: But this introduces the fascinating tidbit that now we know, what you do to the image of the Angel, the corresponding thing will happen to the Angel, that it is an image of, which is very interesting. The third thing of course is the, the idea of destroying someone’s life, but not in a, but like displacing someone. And that is how they wreck your lives.
Lucia Kelly: I find it very interesting that the Weeping Angels are seen as malicious. They’re not, they’re just kind of existing. Like they wreck people’s lives, but not in, like, they don’t kill anyone.
Talia Franks: Well, actually, so my thing about this is they don’t directly kill anyone, but think by sending someone into the past, you’re kind of killing them.
Talia Franks: And it’s not just that like they age until before they’re born. It’s also the fact that getting sent to the past gets a lot of people dead. And it’s not just the obvious of like, if you send a Black person back to the past, they get lynched. It’s also the fact that if you send someone to the past and they don’t have context for the time and place where they are, they’re going to act real suspicious. They’re, I don’t know. They could be hunted down for being a witch. They could be like, just like treated terribly. Like they could be put into one of those terrible mental institutions where they’re like treated horribly and they die from that.
Talia Franks: They could be. Or if they go back far enough, they could go to a place where they just don’t speak the language and they can’t communicate with anyone and they can’t get a job and they starve to death. Like, I mean, like there’s just the past is really terrible and like marginalizes so many different types of people that I feel like once someone is othered, it’s really easy for them to just die. And so I feel like just by sending someone into the past the Angels are othering them and condemning them to death.
Lucia Kelly: Hmm.
Lucia Kelly: I mean, as Yaz said, you could be set back to dinosaur times. Which I think is a good transition to actually talk about the episode now that we’ve gone on and on about the Angels for, for a fair while.
Lucia Kelly: Okay. I’m going to bring up something and I’m going to ask you very politely to be open to this.
Talia Franks: Hmph.
Lucia Kelly: Dan is a good companion. I’m going to like, he’s a good companion. And I think people who continue to hate on him are being petty, that’s not his fault. He’s a good companion.
Talia Franks: I think that Yaz and Dan didn’t have enough to do this episode for me to be able to judge.
Lucia Kelly: Okay. But. Consider. First of all, again, Dan, with the, just the common sense down to Earth thinking, recording the Sontarans in the Sontaran episode.
Lucia Kelly: Also, also he saved Yaz’s life this episode because he figured out that crossing the timeline would get you disintegrated because he threw the stick because he did some practical down on the ground.
Lucia Kelly: Just he’s good. And he’s looking out for Peggy. He’s making sure he’s trying to keep everyone calm and settled. He’s trying. I love his humor. It’s so, just.
Talia Franks: Okay.
Lucia Kelly: I really like Dan.
Talia Franks: Dan isn’t terrible. I, I don’t hate Dan. (Transition wobbles)
Talia Franks: Can we just talk about how in the next episode preview, it says they’ve been there for three years, which means like Yaz and Dan are probably like parenting Peggy, which is
Lucia Kelly: I know
Talia Franks: which is like my alternate AU thinking
Lucia Kelly: And God, Peggy needs some good parenting. Her grand-uncle is a dick! He deserved to get turned to dust. Her great-aunt is a bit, I dunno, we didn’t really get enough for characterization for me to be judgmental, but the great-uncle deserved it.
Talia Franks: Oh my God. And she knew he deserved it. She just stared she just stared like, dead-eyed like cold world. Like she was like, Hmm, damn sucks to be him.
Lucia Kelly: I’m not, I’m not a huge fan of the little Peggy actress. I’m going to be honest. She was a bit wooden. It’s all her fault. She’s a kid, but like,
Talia Franks: I wasn’t sure that that bit was wooden or just Coldemort. (Lucia and Talia laugh)
Lucia Kelly: I’m also not sure if she was told to be that way as well. Like, I’m not sure whether that is how she acted it or whether the director told her to be that way, because she’s given the description before we meet her that she’s very sensible and like we’re sort of given the impression that she’s sort of wise beyond her years, a bit of an old soul.
Lucia Kelly: So like, is that just how they decided to play the character because that’s not old soul, that’s just a deeply unsettling child.
Talia Franks: Well, also I, the impression that they’re kind of trying to give is that no one knows how to deal with her because no one cares about children. The way that the way the grand uncle plays it, he’s like she’s 10 years old. How interesting can she be?
Lucia Kelly: Right? I wanted to, Mmm, I’m so glad that both Yaz and Dan were just like, what a dick. (Lucia laughs) Both of them were like “We’re gonna find out what Peggy’s interested in clearly it’s beyond you.” (Transition wobbles)
Talia Franks: Oh, there was another thing that I was going to say I was struck by in this episode.
Talia Franks: Yeah, just Yaz in Dan’s arc was just so uninteresting. I forgot about it. Like literally when we went back to them, I like, I like put this in the Twitter thread. I was like, oh, OMG I literally forgot that Yaz and Dan were doing something. (Talia laughs) I forgot that they were in this episode.
Lucia Kelly: Their storyline was much more about them bonding as companions, which is going to be a precursor to the fact that they then spent three years together.
Lucia Kelly: So who knows what they’re going to be like when we see them next? Rather than them actually doing anything. Tell you who was doing things though, the Doctor and Claire.
Lucia Kelly: Ahh! And the Claire, and the Angel that’s in Claire as well, Rogue Angel.
Talia Franks: Oh my God. Oh my God. The Rogue Angel also, I love Jericho, just being funky little academic scientist self, like
Lucia Kelly: I love Jericho so much.
Talia Franks: He needs to get his priorities a little bit in order, but I still love him for it.
Lucia Kelly: I adored him. He was such a good little, I hope we see more of him.
Lucia Kelly: I would think so because he’s stuck. Oh my gosh. They’re all stuck together. It’s the professor, Dan Yaz and Peggy all living their little cottage core life. (Lucia screams in excitement and Talia laughs)
Lucia Kelly: I want 10,000 fics on my desk by Tuesday morning. (Talia continues laughing)
Lucia Kelly: Please and thank you. (Lucia laughs)
Lucia Kelly: Yeah, no, I adored him when he was just sort of like, oh my gosh, can I, can I take readings please? While you, while you mind belt with my previous patient, this is unprecedented.
Talia Franks: Yeah, um, also, another random thing before we before we just to make sure that we get this out of the way before we wrap up, there were chickens on that table, like pecking at the food, and then they were eating also on the table. And I was like, that’s so disgusting. That’s so unsanitary. Why are people nasty on main?
Lucia Kelly: I’m, I’m sure. I’m sure they just, they cut all the bit where Yaz and Dan furiously, scrubbed every inch of the kitchen,
Talia Franks: like what kind of sanitary, like scrubbing products do they even have in 1901
Lucia Kelly: Bleach and vinegar
Lucia Kelly: Also, before time runs out, Bel and Vinder!
Talia Franks: Oh my God. (Lucia shrieks in excitement) You love to see it.
Lucia Kelly: You love also, you love to see the little the little Marvel post credits scene, what was that, Jamie Magnus Stone? What was that choice?
Talia Franks: Oh my God. I was so mad though, because we have commercials in the US I know you don’t have commercials in the UK. I don’t know if you have them in Australia.
Lucia Kelly: We do not.
Talia Franks: Yeah. So in the US we have commercials. And so what happened is we had a commercial right before the credits. So I was upset because I thought that we had a commercial just to watch the credits. (Talia wheezes laughter) Cause I didn’t realize there was a Marvel style post credit scene. And I was just so pissed off. But then I was like, oh no, wait, like there’s actual footage here.
Talia Franks: Also like the the music wasn’t in the post credit scene, which I saw in the, in the credits, which I saw someone point out is maybe because the Doctor’s hearts aren’t beating anymore. Cause she’s a Weeping Angel.
Lucia Kelly: Yeah, so, yeah. Okay. So first of all, as Azure knows Bel now, like Azure definitely caught that Bel was behind that. So I’m worried for Bel. Ahh
Talia Franks: Yeah. I’m also worried for Bel because she threw herself on the ground with a fierceness, especially cause she’s supposed to be pregnant.
Lucia Kelly: Right. Bel does not seem to like.
Lucia Kelly: Bel’s not waiting for anyone including her own baby.
Talia Franks: Yeah. Like I think this is another way that the show, and this is a problem that Doctor who has in general. And I don’t think is just, I think is particularly obvious in Chibnall’s era because he’s made an effort to be inclusive But his effort has not been the greatest . But. I mean, he’s, he’s made an effort where other show runners have not made as much of an effort. But even when efforts have been made in the past, like inclusion is not Doctor Who’s strong point it’s very surface level because it’s like, okay, there’s a pregnant person. Who does not act pregnant.
Talia Franks: Okay. There’s like someone like Ryan who has a disability he has dyspraxia, but it’s really easy to forget that he has dyspraxia. I did see a really great thread by someone who I completely forget who it was. It’s lost to the realms of Twitter um about how they have dyspraxia. And they really identified with Ryan because there’s a lot of really small ways in which Ryan’s dyspraxia shows up. But I think it’s so subtle that it’s really easy for other people to forget.
Talia Franks: And so it’s kind of like, it’s very surface level. It’s very, we’re going to tell you that this person is this particular way. But we’re not really gonna follow it up. It’s something that is a real problem because it’s like actually Brenna on Queer Archive was talking about this too, with War of the Sontarans, because Dan, like when he like goes up. So like on this Sontaran ship he’s like, he’s fit. Like he’s not fit in the sense, he’s not cute, but he’s fit in the sense of like, he’s able, like, he’s like in very good shape. He’s able to just like, go, go, go, go. And so like, he could easily be swapped out for like a 20 something year old guy.
Talia Franks: And he does not act like an older man or like, you know, like, so when you can, I mean, like, there are obviously older men who are in good enough shape like that, but like there’s a lot of people who aren’t. So like if you can swap out someone completely, it doesn’t matter. I mean, it’s just very surface level.
Lucia Kelly: Hmm. Yeah.
Lucia Kelly: I wish to state for the record that I do find Dan, a little attractive. Not all the way. But a little. (Lucia laughs)
Talia Franks: Oh my God. No, (Lucia giggles) no. He’s not cute. I saw, I, decided to torture myself and look at Dan and look at, like, see what was on Dan fics on Ao3, mostly because I wanted to see if there were any Danvanista fics yet, because that’s my, that’s my ship.
Lucia Kelly: I don’t like that at all. They’re mates, they’re mates, they’re buddies. It’s man’s best friend. Not man’s best lover.
Talia Franks: No, I I ship it. I’m definitely putting in to fics that I’m writing in the future. But I saw some Dan/Thirteen fics, which I do not like, at all.
Lucia Kelly: Nope. Nope, definitely not. Hmmm. Anyway. So, closing notes, firmly fabulous.
Talia Franks: Firmly fabulous.
Lucia Kelly: Firmly firmly fabulous.
Talia Franks: Very firmly. Fabulous. This was such a good episode, this was so good.
Lucia Kelly: I kind of just want to watch it immediately again.
Talia Franks: This has been the Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Podcast.
Lucia Kelly: We hope you enjoyed this adventure with us through space and time.
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Lucia Kelly: You can find out more information about us and our content on wibblywobblytimeywimey.net And full transcripts for episodes at wibblywobblytimeywimey.net/transcripts
Talia Franks: If you’d like to get in touch, you can send us an email at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Lucia Kelly: Please rate and review us on apple podcasts and other platforms as it helps other people find us and our content.
Talia Franks: Special thanks to our editor Owen Elphick, who has been a vital member of the Wibbly Wobbly team.
Lucia Kelly: That’s all for now. Catch you in the time vortex!