Talia Franks: Hello and welcome to the Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Podcast! Jazz hands! (Talia laugh)

Lucia Kelly: I’m Lucia Kelly, expert at applied analysis and I don’t know who I am anymore.

Talia Franks: I thought you said you were Lucia Kelly? (Lucia and Talia laugh)

Talia Franks: And I’m Talia Franks, media critic, fanfic enthusiast, and what the hell is going on here?

Lucia Kelly: (Lucia laughs) And we’re here today for a Wibbly Wobbly minisode! For real this time.

Talia Franks: For real this time. Cause we’re talking about the 60th Anniversary teaser trailer.

Lucia Kelly: Reminder that time isn’t a straight line. It can twist into any shape. And as such, this is a fully spoiled podcast! We might bring things in from later in the show, the comics, the books, the audio dramas, or even fan theories, and articles.

Talia Franks: Except we won’t be bringing things in from later in the show, ’cause this is the latest there is. (Talia laughs) With that out the way, this is literally 15 seconds long, so there’s no way it won’t be a minisode! So let’s get in the TARDIS!

Talia Franks: Hi, Talia from the future here. Lucia and I recorded this episode in two parts. And… the second part has some slightly different opinions from the first. So… make sure you stick around after the red herring of an ending.

Talia Franks: Also keep in mind that we’re discussing the trailer and we’re also going into some speculation based on what we’ve seen people discussing online and discussions that we’ve seen from statements made by RTD, both on social media and from interviews.

Talia Franks: So this is not only responding to the trailer. So if you are not a fan of talking about things outside of official releases, and I don’t think that we talk about anything that’s not an official release. But just if you don’t wanna hear anything that’s not in the trailer itself, we do talk about a few things that are outside of the trailer. Just keep in mind that this is a spoiler heavy podcast as we say. With that in mind, enjoy the episode. Okay, so are you ready for some speculation?

Lucia Kelly: Alright.

Talia Franks: Okay, so We talked a little bit about our feelings, about ten two, sorry, ten three, ten teen, 14th Doctor. That’s also the Tenth Doctor who recognizes his teeth.

Lucia Kelly: The BBC keep pushing this as the 14th Doctor, and I am hard against it.

Talia Franks: No.

Lucia Kelly: That title belongs to Ncuti.

Talia Franks: Yeah, no, I’m not. I’m not feeling it. Also, do numbers even matter anymore after the Timeless Child? Which you haven’t, still haven’t seen? Hater.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah, no.

Talia Franks: I can’t believe you are denying yourself more Sacha Dhawan by not watching Season 12. Like the fact, like honestly, like I’m sad for you. That’s so sad. Alexa play despacito. Like—

Lucia Kelly: The way I was so close to just blowing off work today and watching all of his episodes like, (Talia laughs) I was very close. Don’t push me. (Lucia laughs) Anyway, so this trailer, 15 seconds long, we start with Tennant, we have a bunch of action shots, we see Donna, we see Tennant in a crowd. We see some kind of creepy, mysterious figure being all mysterious and sinister.

Talia Franks: Neil Patrick Harris. In a top hat (Lucia laughs) Is, is he? What is he doing?

Lucia Kelly: I don’t know.

Talia Franks: He’s all mysterious.

Lucia Kelly: If that’s meant to be the new Master I’m gonna have words to say.

Talia Franks: I’m also gonna have words to say. No. Like, absolutely not. No.

Lucia Kelly: Anyway. We also have a car flipping over. And then uh, we see Ncuti.

Talia Franks: Yeah. He’s fabulous. Oh my God. I love him so much. I’m gonna use that as a gif all the fucking time. Now. That’s my new favorite gif. That’s my new favorite gif.

Lucia Kelly: To talk about the most important things first. The mustache. Eh? (Talia laughs) I’m not sold.

Talia Franks: (Lucia laughs) I don’t know. Like—

Lucia Kelly: I feel like they, I feel like they made him, him have a mustache to make him look as smidge older, and it’s just made him look a bit creepy. Can we not just embrace the fact that he has youthful, beautiful skin and move on? It’s the makings of a pornstache. It’s get— (Talia laughs) it’s the starter. (Talia snorts)

Lucia Kelly: I’m not for it. I hope he shaves it. I hope this is a special, once and done kind of deal, but we’ll see.

 (Transition wobbles)

Lucia Kelly: Uh, honestly, it’s not a lot to go on. It’s a lot of action shots. It’s 15 seconds. Ten-three looks a little confused. I bet he is.

Talia Franks: He doesn’t know who he’s anymore. Okay. But actually, my main thing of this is not just that Ten is back. It’s also, Ten is back and he’s not coming back until 2023. So like, we have to wait a year? We have to wait a whole ass year for this?

Lucia Kelly: We have to wait a couple months. Let’s not over-dramatize.

Talia Franks: No, they said a year. Like, I saw post by um, Russell T. Davies that said that we had to wait a whole year. It’s not coming until next year. So like, it’s not gonna happen until the actual anniversary months.

Lucia Kelly: More time for us to get through Season Four so we can be all refreshed on our Donna! Yay!

Talia Franks: No, ’cause we have to do Season Three first whenever we eventually release it. We’re gonna release Season Three eventually.

Lucia Kelly: Donna’s in this! I’m real happy about it.

Talia Franks: Yes. (Lucia laughs) Donna’s in this. We’re gonna have to, shape up and release Season Three faster.

Lucia Kelly: Yep.

Talia Franks: So that we can release Season Four. So there might actually be a shorter window between Season Three release and Season Four release than you might expect, given how slow it took us to release Season One and Two, we might try to release Season Three more rapidly so that we can speed up Season Four, but you know us in our release schedule or lack thereof.

Lucia Kelly: We also know from photos released that Wilf is going to be there. So obviously that’s going to be post humorous because we had to say goodbye to Bernard Cribbins earlier this year, which was very sad. So this is likely his last project that he ever worked on.

Talia Franks: Yeah, I think it probably is. That’s gonna be hard. It, I’m not really familiar with what he was working on around the time that he died but it’s likely to be, if not the last, one of the last.

Talia Franks: I am really excited for Yasmin Finney. From what I’ve seen it’s likely she’s going to be playing Donna’s daughter. It’s not in this trailer, but just from speculation and the fact that she’s playing a teenage girl and Donna married a Black man. Like, it tracks.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah.

Talia Franks: Like, it’s just, it tracks. (Talia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: One of the things we can discuss is the fact that we now have confirmation, pretty much that the Doctor and Donna is going to be the original Doctor and Donna.

Lucia Kelly: I think, when we were originally discussing it, we brought up the idea of parallel universes maybe, or cloning, or like, any number of ways that this could somehow be conceived? Nope. It looks like it’s—

Talia Franks: It looks like it’s gonna be the, at the very least, the original Doctor, which means that it’s gonna be the original Donna, which means hopefully we are going to get a resolution to that terrible ending for Donna, which, we hated.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah.

Talia Franks: Yeah.

Lucia Kelly: And honestly I think that could be really good PR for RTD.

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: If that’s the first thing he does as show runner is he fixes Donna’s arc. So —

Talia Franks: Yeah, cause Donna’s arc sucked at the end. I loved Donna as a companion. Donna was definitely one of my favorite companions, but what ended up being done to her is… I’m not about it.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. I’m playing this thing at like, quarter speed. There’s not really much else to say yet. (Talia laughs) it’s literally, it’s, it’s too little to go on.

Ad Break

Talia Franks: No, actually, one thing that I did wanna go on is the fact that when you look at where the TARDIS lands, there’s a lot of lights, and it looks festive.

Lucia Kelly: It would make sense if this was a um, some kinda —

Talia Franks: Well, I’ve seen, I’ve seen things saying that it’s coming in the “festive season.”

Lucia Kelly: Yeah.

Talia Franks: So I’m wondering, is this gonna be like, partially Christmas based?

Lucia Kelly: That would be my guess. Tennant did always love the Christmas, (Lucia laughs) which would be sweet. One thing, I think, I would super love is given, sort of, the baggage and the history with Ten and Tennant and how, you know, he just — like a bad penny, keeps coming back. Um —

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, Is it really a bad penny? I feel like it’s a good penny. I like him.

Lucia Kelly: It’s a lucrative penny is what it is.

Talia Franks: It’s a lucrative penny. It’s like less a penny, more like golden dollar.

Lucia Kelly: But, very famously, Ten’s parting words were, “I don’t want to go.”

Talia Franks: Yeah, he really did not wanna go.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah.

Talia Franks: At all.

Lucia Kelly: I would love if his parting words, this time around, were actually more about being ready to go —

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: — or being that closure. That’s my big speculation, which I vaguely touched on in our main episode, is that I really want this, these series of specials to be —

Talia Franks: Provide closure?

Lucia Kelly: Providing closure and setting up —

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: — clean slates.

Talia Franks: Yeah. I will not be mad about Ten being the clean slate for Ncuti Gatwa being the 15th Doctor. Because as much as I wish we lived in an ideal world where we could go straight from having Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor to Ncuti Gatwa’s Doctor, where we could go directly from having a woman Doctor to a man of color as the Doctor, where we didn’t have to have that like, David Tennant security blanket. I objectively recognize that given how much turmoil there has been around Chibnall’s season, given how much there is already set up against Ncuti Gatwa like, how much is already stacked up against him. I recognize that it’s really important to have this clean slate. Especially during the 60th Anniversary year where people are going to be expecting a lot of fan service. It’s gonna be a very heavy burden to carry and I think it’s gonna be really great to have Tennant who’s like, a real veteran of Doctor Who to carry that burden. And so I think it’s gonna be a really good opportunity to have that. And I think it’s really fruitful to have that there. So I’m not actually mad about it. I’m not actually mad about having David Tennant be the interim Doctor, especially if it’s only gonna be for a handful of episodes. I do wish it wasn’t necessary. I wish that we didn’t need to have this, but I do recognize objectively the need for it. Even if I wish it wasn’t necessary.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. I’m choosing to view David Tennant as the tasteful lime sorbet you have between two delicious courses. (Talia laughs)

Talia Franks: No. And the thing is, I love David Tennant as an actor. But it’s really funny because I’ve made no secret of the fact that David Tennant’s Tenth Doctor is actually my least favorite Doctor. So I’ll be really interested to see what I think of David Tennant’s 14th Doctor, and to see whether or not I like him any better than the Tenth.

Talia Franks: Because I think with the maturity that comes with having been the 11th Doctor, having been the 12th Doctor and been the Thirteenth Doctor, it’s entirely possible that he will have a different characterization. Because … one of the things that we’re gonna be doing in Season Three, for our Patreon we’re gonna be talking about some of the Doctor Who Extended Universe material, including the Year with Martha Big Finish Audio.

Talia Franks: And one of the things that Big Finish Audios come with is interviews with the cast, and in one of the cast interviews Freema says that when she was getting back into the role of Martha, which she hadn’t played for a number of years, she had to cast herself back into that head space and cast herself, not just back into that head space of what Martha is like, but also what she was like and how she used to act. Not even just how she used to act as Martha, but how she used to act as a person when she was acting, to really inhabit that character, and really inhabit that self, and so it’s gonna be really interesting because David Tennant has this opportunity to — for example, in the 50th Anniversary special, he had to go back into that space as the Tenth Doctor and act as he was as the Tenth Doctor.

Talia Franks: But with the 14th Doctor, he has the opportunity to not cast himself back into that space of what he was like in 2005 through 2009. He can act as he is in 2022 and be the actor that he is now because the Doctor has matured. Rather than having to cast himself back into the Tenth Doctor framework, he can create a new framework as the 14th Doctor.

Talia Franks: So that’s just a really interesting thing to think about, is that it’s not casting himself back into the same role. It’s evolving this role. Um —

Lucia Kelly: Yep, yep, definitely. I’m just hoping the hair and makeup team will do a little bit better this time. The 50th anniversary was … hard to watch. (Lucia and Talia laugh)

Talia Franks: See that’s the thing, is that they don’t even need to try to make him look younger, because he like, as the 14th Doctor isn’t trying to be the same person. It’s the same thing where with the Power of the Doctor. They weren’t even trying to make the Fifth and Seventh Doctors look like they did. They’re not trying to make them look younger. They just excused it as saying that the interface was being interfered with because Tegan and Ace were older to make the Doctors also look older, so they didn’t even have to make them look younger. They just had to put them in the same outfits. So it makes it a lot easier on the costuming team, on the hair and makeup team, and it is also easier on the actor because Tennant, like I said, he’s acting not as Ten was, he’s acting as 14 is. It’s why I’m more comfortable calling him 14 than calling him Ten because he really is a different Doctor.

Talia Franks: He’s not the Tenth Doctor, he has a whole new set of experiences. He has thousands more years memory. Like, the Tenth Doctor really is so much younger than the 14th Doctor. (Lucia hmmms) The 14th Doctor has so many more years of experiences, so many more years of context, and growth, and he’s really moved beyond who he was.

Talia Franks: And so expecting him to be the same is actually a real reduction of his character. And so, actually if he is the same, if he is entirely the same, I will be disappointed. So that’s why I really appreciate, and I’m really interested by that one line. ‘Cause there are only two lines in the trailer, but I’m really interested by that one line where he says, “I don’t even know who I am anymore.”

Talia Franks: Because is he really the Tenth Doctor? Because the Tenth Doctor was an entirely different person, and now he’s really shaped by his experiences of being 11, of being 12, of being 13, and also of finding out all the history of the Timeless Child and like, of all the people who the Doctor was and never even knew about.

Lucia Kelly: Mm-Hmm And it’s gonna be interesting how that integrates with having an old companion as well —

Talia Franks: Yes.

Lucia Kelly: — that would ground him back to that time. There’s a lot of potential for incredibly interesting character work —

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: — which I’m very excited about.

(Transition wobbles)

Talia Franks: I feel like this was a really interesting trailer. It was definitely a teaser. It was definitely a teaser. Definitely didn’t feel like there’s a whole lot to go on. I’m really stressed out about having to wait for a year.

Talia Franks: Fingers crossing, when they say 2023, they mean one of the episode’s gonna come out on New Year’s. But I’m not holding out much hope.

Lucia Kelly: I am choosing to hold out hope. I think that would be the smart decision.

Talia Franks: We have very different brains. We’ve said this before (Lucia laughs) and we’ll say it again.

Talia Franks: We have very different brains.

Talia Franks: I’m just gonna watch the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday special and that’s gonna be, (Lucia laughs) that’s gonna be my thing. Yeah.

Lucia Kelly: Mm-hmm Alright. This was our speculation. This is what we think is gonna happen.

Talia Franks: Yeah, and if you’re a patron, you’ll have heard the slightly longer version of this episode, which is interesting. (Lucia laughs) includes the talk of fanfiction and things you may or may not wanna Google.

Lucia Kelly: Oh yeah.

Talia Franks: (Talia laughs) Anyway that’s all for now. Thank you for listening to us ramble (Talia laughs) about wild speculation.

Lucia Kelly: See you next time.

Talia Franks: See you next time. Toodles!

Lucia Kelly: Bye!

Talia Franks: Bye.

(Transition wobbles)

Talia Franks: Hey there, Wibbly Wobbly fam. So we recorded that whole episode about the trailer, and then we decided we have more to say. So —

Lucia Kelly: We sure did.

Talia Franks: — here we are. If that sounded like we were done with the episode, and then you’re like, Wait a minute, there’s more episode. Hey look, there’s more episode.

Talia Franks: Basically we recorded that episode on the trailer right after it all came out, and then it took us forever in a day to edit the Centenary special episode because I was sick. Drama happened. Anyway, life happens all the time.

Lucia Kelly: Life happens all the time forever. Constantly. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Life happens.

Lucia Kelly: Ahhhhh!

Talia Franks: Yeah no, we’ve been having, we’ve been having a time lately.

Lucia Kelly: We sure have.

Talia Franks: There is that point where I couldn’t hear and you couldn’t talk.

Talia Franks: That was sure, that was sure special few weeks.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. You couldn’t hear, I couldn’t talk. Various sections of my life are falling apart in different stages. (Lucia laughs while saying “um”)

Talia Franks: Oh, same. Same.

Lucia Kelly: it’s just been, it’s just been life happening. But who cares about real life when we can talk about fiction and all of the real life drama that comes from it? Which is why we’re here because, Oh, ooh, the discourse.

Talia Franks: Yeah, all the real life drama that’s coming from this. The main thing I just wanna talk about is that not so cute little comment about RTD saying that he changed David Tennant’s costume so that he wouldn’t be in Jodie’s costume so that it wouldn’t be drag. And so like, to be clear, I think what it — what he clarified, I think I saw a thing about him clarifying that it was more, again, to like appease some of the people who were on the right.

Talia Franks: And I think it sure is interesting how much he’s trying to really cater to the haters. And like —

Lucia Kelly: Yeah.

Talia Franks: — the thing is, we’ve said before that it’s a very smart marketing choice to try to cater to as many people as possible, but I really do wish that he was not prioritizing the haters so much.

Talia Franks: And that he was like, prioritizing more the people who have been loyal to Doctor Who this whole time and have been interested in Doctor Who throughout Chibnall’s era and have been vocal supporters of it. And like, that’s not to say that we loved every aspect of Chibnall’s era, and there are things that we are excited about in RTD’s new era, but I do think that it kind of sucks that he’s spending so much time talking up the points that are like, specifically catering to people who had a lot of haterade, to say, to say the least.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. Well, I mean it’s the whole like, yes, there is merit in widening your audience and there is logic to catering to the most common denominator. That is different from coddling your really conservative sector of your fan base.

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: And just to be, just to clarify, just to put it in words, just so that everyone’s really clear of exactly what happened. Jodie’s wearing pants. She’s wearing a t-shirt, she’s wearing pants, she’s wearing suspenders, she’s wearing a coat. They are all completely gender neutral items of clothing. They’re not even particularly femininely tailored. They’re literally just shirt, pants, suspenders, coat.

Talia Franks: And the other thing is that there’s literal footage of Jodie Whittaker talking about how much she loves her costume because it is so gender neutral and because it is something that anybody could wear. And it really just, I feel, does a real disservice to all of the people who are nonbinary, who are men, people who are genderfluid, and people who really appreciate that fluidity in her costume and that ability to have a costume that is a really fun and exciting costume, but doesn’t lean one particular way. One of the great things about her costume is that it isn’t particularly masculine or particularly feminine.

Talia Franks: But also, one of the things too, when you think about things that are particularly masculine or feminine, people try to qualify like, what is like, a non-binary look or like, a gender fluid look. This whole thing about what is someone who’s non-binary look like? Gender neutral clothing is often really interesting because gender neutral clothing, often it leans more towards someone wearing pants, someone wearing more neutral colors, and so it’s just really interesting to me that like, when people talk about gender neutral clothing and talk about what it means to look non-binary, there’s like, an image of someone who’s non-binary in their head. The thing is gender fluidity. It’s much more expansive than that. Like, I’m non-binary and gender fluid, but I don’t have any one particular way of dressing. And so like, one might say that some of my outfits are like, very feminine or very like, masculine, but personally I just think they’re very Talia. Like, sometimes I like to wear really elaborate dresses that look like they’re from the Renaissance period, and sometimes I like to wear really tight dresses, and sometimes I like to wear crop tops, and sometimes I like to wear patterned pants, and sometimes I like to wear short skirts, and sometimes I like to wear overalls. I have like, a variety of different things that I like to wear and none of it feels particularly — some of it, is assigned masculine or feminine because I buy it from like, the men’s section or the women’s section at the store because that’s how Target is split up.

Talia Franks: But, um, like, just because I buy my cargo pants from the men’s section doesn’t mean that it’s a particularly masculine outfit. Just because the t-shirt that I got from the women’s section is like, uh, is doesn’t mean that it’s like particularly feminine.

Talia Franks: Though that’s a bad example because I usually get men’s t-shirts cause they fit me better (Talia laughs while saying um) but like, clothes are clothes and to the extent that clothes are gendered, I think the only thing that ever makes sense to me about clothes is that they should be tailored to someone’s body shape, not to someone’s gender. Like, I typically need clothes that can deal with the fact that I have hips and I have boobs. And that’s basically, that’s basically it. I don’t really care about what section of the store they’re from, as long as they fit and they can deal with the fact that I have a certain body shape.

Talia Franks: I don’t know, that’s me and my soapbox about clothes. So like, to the extent that makes sense for David Tennant to be in a different outfit. Like, I can understand how David Tennant might find Jodie Whittaker’s clothes a little bit small, ’cause she’s a smaller person, but that’s really easily fixed by just tailoring —

Lucia Kelly: By just doing literally what you’ve done for every, every single other Doctor, which is make a new costume to fit the new actor. And also, Tennant would’ve fucking rocked it.

Talia Franks: Yeah.

Lucia Kelly: Are you kidding me? He would’ve rocked it!

Talia Franks: He would’ve looked so good in her outfit.

Talia Franks: And you know what I think is honestly one of the like, genuine crimes of this not having Jodie Whittaker regenerate into Ncuti Gatwa is that now we can’t see Ncuti Gatwa in Jodie Whittaker’s outfit, which I think would’ve been fire.

Talia Franks: I will say I’m very glad that we got to see Sacha Dhawan in Jodie Whittaker’s outfit because that was Chef’s Kiss and also that’s the thing, we saw him in her outfit and it didn’t look like drag, like —

Lucia Kelly: Exactly, exactly. So my point, like the entire argument falls. So it’s just bullshit on bullshit on bullshit.

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: and

Talia Franks: the thing we saw him in her outfit and it didn’t look like drag like —

Lucia Kelly: Exactly, exactly, like, the entire argument falls so — It’s just bullshit, on bullshit, on bullshit.

Lucia Kelly: And it’s also such a disservice. It’s such a slap in the face to the costume designers and all the people who have put so much effort and work —

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: — into making sure that this costume was the best it could possibly be. One of the key aspects of Jodie’s costume that I really love is how practical it is.

Lucia Kelly: It’s sort of got this romper kind of feel to it.

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: Like, it’s such a fun, cool, versatile costume.

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: And it’s just, it feels like doing this — The argument is so convoluted and based on literally nothing that it feels, and this is a strong word, so I’m gonna be really careful with it, but it feels almost like a dog whistle. Like it feels almost like a, it feels almost like, “Don’t worry, you are safe here, far right conservative folk who are scared about their precious, fictional TV show, not adhering to their values.”

Lucia Kelly: Like, you said it. We’ve already had a guy wearing the costume.

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: That’s not the issue.

Talia Franks: Yep.

Lucia Kelly: That’s not the issue. That’s clearly not the issue. Or you would’ve changed that as well. Or there would’ve at least been some comment in the script, or like, something that called it out. So what, what is this other than to signify that, “Don’t worry, everything’s fine. We’re going to adhere to strict gender roles to an absurd and stupid degree.”

Lucia Kelly: Which makes me real fucking nervous about how the rest of the series is going to go under RTD’s leadership —

Talia Franks: Yeah.

Lucia Kelly: — because it, ’cause what it does is that it, it, it quiets one side of a fandom and amps up and puts on edge the rest of us.

Lucia Kelly: It’s created a space for a lack of confidence. And just, sort of, adds to this fear and fuel to the fire of, as we’re about to get into with our Season Three recap, RTD can be quite anti-Black.

Talia Franks: Yep.

Lucia Kelly: And we are very careful to give the benefit of the doubt in every instance that it comes up. We don’t know how purposeful it is. We’re not inside RTD’s head. That’s a key part of analysis is that you bring your own context to it and you cannot assume what the writer intended. However, there are patterns —

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: — and to put him back in charge when you have your first Black Doctor — First — I know you’re about to talk about Jo. — First Black Doctor as part of the main canon. (Lucia laughs) That has their own series and prolonged contract as a full — like, not as a guest spot. It’s worrying.

Talia Franks: It is worrying. Yeah. No, I was gonna say, I do completely agree. It’s very worrying. And I’m definitely concerned. And like, I do agree with you, especially on the fact that Ncuti Gatwa is the first main Doctor. Like, that is something that I’ve said that Jo Martin is definitely the first Black doctor we’ve seen on screen but she is a guest star. Like, as fantastic as she is, we do not see enough of her. And I really wish that we’d gotten an opportunity for a Black Doctor as a main Doctor on the show. I’m not upset that we got her. I think it was a really great opportunity to see a Black doctor on screen. I do wish that we’d seen more of her.

Talia Franks: I wish that she’d been a bigger part of Jodie Whittaker’s last few series. I wish that she’d been more integrated into the last two seasons. I think that it was a real missed opportunity for her to not be in more Season 12 and Season 13. I think it would’ve been really great to see more of her. I think she was great in Fugitive of the Judoon, that was a really great introduction to her. And I just wish that in the other episodes that she appeared, she had um, just as strong of a presence and that she appeared more thoroughly in all of the instances that she was there. I wish she’d been more present in all the episodes. I do understand that, especially with Covid imposing on Flux that led to some limitations. I just wish that she had a bigger presence.

Talia Franks: But yeah, I do wanna say that I am now a bit more worried about RTD, especially because there was that like, sort of tagline on cover the magazine “This is the future.” And I know that it’s like, taken like, slightly outta context, but like, just the fact that that’s like, on the cover, that that’s the sentiment that they’re like, headlining and putting forth is really worrying.

Talia Franks: That’s the first narrative that people are going to be seeing. A lot of people just like, only look at the cover. Doctor Who Magazine isn’t something that a lot of people subscribe to. Like, I subscribe to it, but I haven’t even gotten a chance to read through that whole magazine yet. As we were saying earlier, life has been lifeing.

Talia Franks: But, yeah, so — Also um, just for reference, in case there’s anything else that has blown up that we haven’t been able to address, we’re recording this at 5:00 AM Eastern Time on November 11th. So if something wild happens before this gets published, just so you know. We’re definitely not going to insert a Talia from the future, saying that there’s a new companion named Ruby Sunday and we’re not gonna talk about it. That’s definitely not happening, cuz that would be wild if that announcement came right before we release the episode. Um —

Lucia Kelly: We’re not gonna talk about it. (Lucia starts laughing)

Talia Franks: We’re not gonna talk about it.

Lucia Kelly: We’ve already recorded this twice.

Talia Franks: We already are on our second recording, and we’re probably missing stuff too because there’s just so much to keep up with and we’re just, we just can’t always find time to record together because we live on opposite sides of the planet.

Talia Franks: And recording and also making sure that our edits are synced up when we do record and then we have to edit is just kind of a lot. But really appreciate your patience, and we appreciate all of our listeners and all of our patrons. Also make sure that you join us on Patreon, on our Discord, where we have a space for our patrons and then some of our guests.

Talia Franks: Just to be clear, guests are not obligated to join the Discord. So not every guest who we’ve had on the podcast is in the Discord, but a handful of our guests are in the Discord with us. Both past and future guests, so get a little sneak peek. And also another one of our Patreon benefits that we did not mention before is blooper reels are coming, so — (Talia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: So, so many bloopers. You’ve been, You have been shielded dear listeners from so much.

Talia Franks: You’ve been shielded from so much. I was just editing the blooper reel for Rose and, uh —

Lucia Kelly: Oh God. We were so young.

Lucia and Talia together: We were so young —

Lucia Kelly: — and naive.

Talia Franks: And full of bullshit. (Lucia and Talia laugh)

Talia Franks: I went on a whole rant about fanfiction. It was hilarious.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. — Oh. Aw! Remember when I used to have —

Talia Franks: Remember the timer?

Lucia Kelly: (Talia laughs) Yes!

Talia Franks: Anyway.

Lucia Kelly: When I used to have a timer for you. Oh my gosh, we were so young.

Talia Franks: We were so young. Anyway if you wanna hear all about fanfiction and the timer, join our Patreon. (Talia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: Did we fully cut that out?

Talia Franks: We did.

Lucia Kelly: Do the listeners not know about the timer? (Lucia gasps in disbelief)

Talia Franks: I feel like the listeners didn’t know about the timer.

Lucia Kelly: Hidden lore. This is what you can get with a Patreon!

Talia Franks: Anyway. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate you. And this minisode, which is probably a bit long for talking about 15 second trailer, but we added stuff on now, so —

Talia Franks: Yeah. Anything else you wanna talk about?

Lucia Kelly: I’m good. I just wanted to, as a sort of addendum, wanted to reassure listeners that our space and the way that we talk about the show is not gonna change.

Lucia Kelly: So just like we hold, we love holding people accountable. We love calling stuff out. So, if when the new season does drop, fears are confirmed, just sort of, be easy in the fact that at least this show will be one to be able to come to, to call that out and to acknowledge it.

Talia Franks: Mm-hmm.

Lucia Kelly: Um, And that we’re not at all interested in shoving stuff under the rug or —

Talia Franks: Far right bullshit?

Lucia Kelly: — catering to the lowest denominator, (Lucia laughs) or far right bullshit. Fuck, fuck catering to the lowest common denominator.

Talia Franks: Yep. And with that outta the way we’re gonna go finish recording Season Three because we still haven’t finished recording it, which is why it’s not out. Sorry!

Lucia Kelly: Sorry. It’ll be soon!

Talia Franks: It’ll be soon. It’ll definitely be out by the end of December, we promise.

Lucia Kelly: Alright.

Lucia and Talia together: Bye!

Lucia Kelly: Thank you for listening to The Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Podcast.

Talia Franks: We hope you enjoyed this adventure with us through space and time.

Lucia Kelly: You can find us elsewhere on the internet on Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram @WibblyPod. Follow us for more Wibbly Wobbly content.

Talia Franks: You can find out more information about us and our content on wibblywobblytimeywimey.net, and full transcripts for episodes at wibblywobblytimeywimey.net/transcripts.

Lucia Kelly: If you’d like to get in touch with us, you can also send us an email at wibblywobblytimeywimeypod@gmail.com.

Talia Franks: Please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and other platforms as it helps other people find us and our content.

Lucia Kelly: If you’d like to support us, you can send us a donation at paypal.me/wibblypod

Talia Franks: Special thanks to our editor, Dee who has been a vital member of the Wibbly Wobbly Team.

Lucia Kelly: That’s all for now. Catch you in the time vortex!