We’re back! And in true Wibbly Wobbly fashion we’re jumping in with a series of weekly minisodes to talk to y’all about our reactions to FLUX before we do our deep dive into series two. (Don’t worry, we’ll get there!) Tune in to hear our hot take on THE HALLOWEEN APOCALYSPE! Lucia has questions about Sontaran culture, Dan Lewis is evaluated as the newest companion on the TARDIS, and we are VERY curious about those handcuffs.
Talia Franks: Hello and welcome to The Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Podcast!
Lucia Kelly: I’m Lucia Kelly expert at applied analysis and designated rescuer.
Talia Franks: And I’m Talia Franks, media critic, fanfic enthusiast, and I am cataclysmic and impossible!
Lucia Kelly: And we’re here today for a Wibbly Wobbly Minisode! (Talia says “Yay!” and Lucia goes “woo-hoo!”)
Talia Franks: Today, we’re talking about Flux: The Halloween Apocalypse, the first episode of series 13 of Doctor Who.
Lucia Kelly: Flux: The Halloween Apocalypse aired on October 31st, 2021, Halloween. It was written by Chris Chibnall and directed by Jamie Magnus Stone.
Talia Franks: Reminder that time isn’t a straight line. It can twist into any shape and as such, this is a fully spoiled podcast. We might bring things in from later in the show, the comics, the books, the audiodramas, or even fan theories and articles.
Lucia Kelly: With that out of the way, The Flux is imminent. I forecast incredible suffering. Vast bloodshed. A conflict that will dwarf all that has come before. The greatest of times is upon us. The greatest of times are upon us. We must be ready to take advantage, so let’s get in the TARDIS!
Talia Franks: IMDB synopsis says! On Halloween, all across the universe, terrifying forces are stirring. From the Arctic Circle to deep space, an ancient evil is breaking free. And in present day Liverpool, the life of Dan Lewis is about to change forever.
Lucia Kelly: This is the one where the Tardis throws the Doctor and Yaz on a bed with handcuffs and they STILL do not get the message. (Talia laughs)
Lucia Kelly: I am in pain. (Lucia laughs)
Talia Franks: I have decided, I decided that Yaz is not 19. Like
Lucia Kelly: I mean she’s not coded 19.
Talia Franks: So I’ve decided in all further fanfic, in all further discourse, Yaz is gonna be late twenties, early thirties. Like, I’m just, this is just what I’m going with. Mandip Gill is like 32 or something? I don’t know. I don’t have time to look her up.
Talia Franks: We, we set a timer, so I’ve just decided she’s going to be early thirties. Like this is just how I’m going to work it in all further, in all further head canons, in all further fanfics. I write, she’s early 30s. Anyway.
Lucia Kelly: Do we w just very quickly for, for our dear and dedicated listeners, explain what’s going on, ’cause from their perspective we’re we’re somewhere in season two, season one?
Talia Franks: We just finished season one. So! What are we doing right now, Lucia? (Lucia wheezes a laugh)
Lucia Kelly: Well Talia, um, basically. We recognize that a lot of people don’t want to come with us on the journey all the way back to season two.
Lucia Kelly: And that it might be fun to talk about what’s actually happening right now. Like literally right now in Who-land. So what’s going to happen is every week while Doctor Who was actually airing Talia, and I I’m going to do a quick Minisode, it’s not going to be the length of our regular episodes, we’re literally just doing reactions, maybe like a tiny, tiny, little bit of analysis and speculation, just sort of what we thought. We’re just going to, blagh, put it all out there for you.
Talia Franks: Yeah, and at the end of the episode, we’re gonna, instead of doing our normal thorough grading, we’re just going to do a general, is the episode fun, funky, or fabulous?
Lucia Kelly: Foul
Talia Franks: Funky fabulous and foul. Uh, just a general blanket decision.
Talia Franks: And once we get all the way through all the other seasons and our normal format of deep analysis, we will do full episodes on series 13. Um, but that’s probably not going to be for another like five years.
Lucia Kelly: So it’s something to look forward to, you know?
Talia Franks: Something to look forward to, um,
Lucia Kelly: In the meantime, let’s talk about these handcuffs because Doc, Doc, (Talia giggles)
Lucia Kelly: What are you doing with two pairs, two pairs of handcuffs in your pocket, voice activated and the safe word. There was a little bit of memory loss there. I’m not going to blame you for it, but the safe word wasn’t release, it was relief. And I just wanna… Doc. (Talia giggles)
Lucia Kelly: I think you need to talk to Yaz, like with your words, maybe I think maybe this is a conversation you need to have with her, with words and not like, I think we’ve moved, moved past the point of subtle innuendos. We want things to actually happen. (Lucia laughs)
Talia Franks: Especially, because if we think about the fact that if Yaz and the Doctor are not a couple, which is upsetting to me, but if they are not, the last person that the Doctor is likely to have used handcuffs involving a safe word with is Missy. (Lucia makes a pained noise)
Talia Franks: Especially because she says that she might’ve been Scottish the last time that she used these. Which implies Capaldi, which implies that he and Missy were using handcuffs.
Lucia Kelly: Do you think Missy gave them to them?
Talia Franks: Maybe.
Lucia Kelly: Do you think maybe they were a gift? (Talia and Lucia laugh and Lucia heaves a sigh) What an opener
Talia Franks: Sorry, I didn’t want to put you in your feels. (Talia chortles)
Talia Franks: This episode is wild. There is so much going on that I don’t even know what to talk about. Also the Sontaran throwing shade at the other, oh my god (Talia devolves into laughter)
Lucia Kelly: Okay. I could not, I could not cause the Sontarans are very sort of stoic and (Talia mhmms) straightforward in their delivery.
Lucia Kelly: I could not tell whether he was complimenting or degrading the other person, like I could not honestly tell whether disgusting was meant to be like, (Lucia speaks with affected reverence) “You’re disgusting my liege” oh, like (Lucia spits out her words) “You’re disgusting.” Like I could not tell, but with no tone indicators. (Lucia laughs)
Lucia Kelly: What do you reckon? Cause Sontarans, like, They’re all just moldy little potatoes together. Like, I don’t know. Is that a compliment?
Talia Franks: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. That’s a good point. (Lucia laughs)
Talia Franks: That’s a good point. I had not considered. Hmmm
Lucia Kelly: Also, maybe it was just the hologram. I don’t think he looked that bad. I think he looked like an average Sontaran (Lucia laughed)
Talia Franks: I think they looked the same.
Lucia Kelly: Right?
Talia Franks: Um,
Lucia Kelly: maybe it’s like a filter, you know, like an Instagram filter. Like you could make yourself look a bit more starchy? (Talia and Lucia laugh)
Talia Franks: I also have to say, I, one of the things I loved about how chaotic this episode was, was how you were just dropped in the middle of the episode, like just dropped in the middle of the story. I love things being in media res. Like
Lucia Kelly: I’m not such a big fan of it. I’ve got to say
Talia Franks: I do love it. I love figuring things out as we go along.
Talia Franks: Um, What I don’t love is how this is the third season opener where Chris Chibnall killed a Black person.
Lucia Kelly: Yeah. Let’s talk about that. What the heck.
Talia Franks: What the heck. It’s not just, and like, I’ve seen critiques where it’s like, “oh, he killed white people too.” And first of all, both of the people he killed were queer coded.
Lucia Kelly: Oh my God.
Talia Franks: Yeah. And
Lucia Kelly: so queer coded
Talia Franks: so queer coded like to the point where I would say that all three of the Black people killed in season openers were Black women, except for the fact that I’m not sure this person was a Black woman and not non binary cause so queer coded
Lucia Kelly: The mad, mad nonbinary vibes. Like this, this was an elder gay and their baby gay going out.
Lucia Kelly: Like checking out the scene, like,
Talia Franks: Yeah, I have a whole fanfic planned. Like it’s outlined, I’m just waiting until Flux is over so that I can make sure that I don’t do anything that like contrasts too wildly with what’s going to happen with the rest of the season.
Talia Franks: It’s going to happen. Um.
Talia Franks: But yeah, like, the fuck Christian Chibnall?
Talia Franks: Dan Lewis feels, so unnecessary, we could’ve had two women in the TARDIS. Doing their investigaytions. (Talia and Lucia snicker)
Lucia Kelly: Of, of, of the world and maybe each other’s bodies. We don’t know (Talia and Lucia laugh)
Talia Franks: Like… and then this white man has to be there for why? Like the unfortunate thing is that I like Dan, I didn’t want to—
Lucia Kelly: I know! It’s so frustrating. I was watching this and I’m like, I’m not going to like Dan, I’m going to make a stand. I’m going to be a good feminist. And then Dan was delightful.
Lucia Kelly: I hate it. He’s so, like, he’s precious. He’s a history buff. He wants to be a tour guide, but he doesn’t have the qualifications. And I’m like, I hate that I identify with this so much. How dare you be, how dare you be you? But, but he is a soup hater and I can’t, I can’t by that. What the fuck? You hate soup, Dan? Who hurt you?
Talia Franks: I don’t know. Maybe he was allergic to the soup. I’m allergic to soup. So,
Lucia Kelly: I mean, I did kid, but we know who hurt Dan. Society hurt Dan. Cause he’s not doing good. Things are going wrong for him in many spaces.
Talia Franks: Yeah. It’s because of Brexit. (Mhmm) Dan is a thinly veiled, Brexit criticism. (Lucia makes a gasp of emphatic agreement)
Lucia Kelly: Uh, very thinly it’s like, it’s like, (Lucia laughs) think of how much marmite you put over the toast. It’s less than that. (Lucia laughs again)
Talia Franks: Uh, I think I was talking to some people about this and it’s because and it makes sense actually. Because if they used a person of color to make this Brexit criticism all the racists would just be up in arms, but they’re using a white man to do it.
Talia Franks: So
Lucia Kelly: Yeah it would be great if we even had like a white woman, so we could have an all woman TARDIS. But given that the choice to make Dan a white man is actually very specific because it’s meant to be this criticism. And it’s meant to be like (Lucia sighs) they very specifically made him a white man and a criticism of Brexit together to make a point, right?
Lucia Kelly: Given that I can forgive it. Slightly.
Talia Franks: Like, if they’re going to make him a white man, at least they’re making it a class criticism.
Lucia Kelly: So can we talk about his sweet date? I love Diane!
Talia Franks: I love her, except why did he make her wait by herself in a dark alley?
Lucia Kelly: I was about to say, like, that was not his choice. He was being tied up by a dog, like, (Lucia laughs)
Talia Franks: Like but also it was a dark street at night. And I don’t know, (Talia sighs) but also like from the minute that they said it was not a date and he was definitely going to be there. I was like, oh no, this is Doctor Who, that
Lucia Kelly: I know!
Talia Franks: that
Lucia Kelly: Why would you curse it like that?
Talia Franks: That date is not happening.
Lucia Kelly: I do. I do appreciate, I do appreciate someone who like recognizes how much of a mess their crush is and still jumps in two feet forward. Like (Lucis laughs) she knows exactly what’s happening. It’s like yep. Yep. I want to kiss him on the lips. I hate this for me, but I’m going. (Lucia laughs)
Talia Franks: Yeah. I also appreciated that it was two older people, awkwardly falling in love. Because usually when you see like awkward first dates and people like navigating relationships, it’s always young people and it’s like, no, it’s like women exist over 35.
Lucia Kelly: (Lucia whispers) Women exist over 35! (Lucia groans)
Talia Franks: I don’t actually know how old this actress is, but she looked at least 35. (Lucia hmms)
Talia Franks: I liked this episode, I liked this episode a lot. There was so much going on though.
Lucia Kelly: Well, what’s so exciting about this, is that, so this is very much like part one of act one of this story. We are still very much in the introduction. And what’s so exciting is that this is actually returning to the roots of Old Who.
Lucia Kelly: There are of course standalone Old Who episodes, but particularly in like a sort of First Doctor to Third and Fourth Doctor era, it was not unusual to have stories span over like, a good seven to eight episodes. So it’s really kind of funky that um, funky in a good way, I’m aware of we’re about to use funky in a bad way later on, (Lucia laughs) but it’s really cool that they’ve decided as, you know, sadly, a send off to, to the beautiful Jodie has given us so much, um, That they’re doing this kind of huge overarching story.
Lucia Kelly: When, so often in modern television, um, you’re kind of given if you are going to do a bigger story, it’s two episodes at most. Like if you’re pushing it, maybe three. So I’m really excited. So, yeah, so we’ve got a bunch of different introductory stuff. We’re jumping all over the place. End of time. Beginning of time, edges of the universe, Liverpool in multiples in multiple years. (Lucia laughs)
Talia Franks: I’m really curious about Claire. I want to know what’s going on. The Weeping Angels were kind of terrifying and freaky. And I loved them for once after like, the Weeping Angels had gotten so… I’d gotten so desensitized to them, but I was like, oh my God, that we’d be handles are terrifying again. Uh,
Lucia Kelly: Yeah.
Talia Franks: Also Claire knew who the Doctor was, but met them in the past, but like her whole situation is fascinating to me.
Talia Franks: I’m so excited to see where she goes.
Talia Franks: Also, one other quick thing before we move into the funky fabulous and foul. I love how competent and confident Yaz is with the TARDIS now. She knew all that lingo and how to pilot this TARDIS! Yaz knows how to pilot the TARDIS better than any companion that we’ve seen in the modern era.
Lucia Kelly: Yeah, it was really evident, just how, like the, despite the fact that The Doc and Yaz, despite not officially be a couple, definitely need to go to couples therapy, (Lucia laughs) it is, like so cool to see how in sync they are and just how knowledgeable Yaz is. And also very interesting, particularly the scene, the very first scene between Yaz and Dan, just how much of The Doctor’s kind of, presentation style that Yaz has adopted, like the way that Yaz introduces herself to Dan is very clearly her mimicking The Doctor and trying to be The Doctor to Dan, which is a fascinating power dynamic, which I’m sure will get explored.
Talia Franks: Yeah. And that’s definitely something that was explored with Clara a lot where Clara tried to almost be The Doctor to an extent that was really to her detriment. And Clara was almost, not corrupted exactly. But like it drove Clara to the point of extremes and her death was really caused by her trying to be The Doctor too much.
Talia Franks: But I feel like Clara also put so much like wholehearted faith into The Doctor, while also trying to be him in a way that Yaz really doesn’t like Yaz fights with The Doctor, Yaz confronts The Doctor in a way that like Clara also fought with The Doctor, but I feel like the power imbalance between Clara and The Doctor was too much in The Doctor’s favor. Whereas I feel like Yaz really fights back against The Doctor in a way that Clara doesn’t. You don’t have any context for this because you haven’t watched Clara, I think also that Yaz, yeah.
Talia Franks: As is like confidence and competence, I would guess say isn’t dependent on the doctor is I guess what I’m trying to say, where I feel like, Clara was very dependent on The Doctor in a way that yes. Although I will say that because I feel like people are going to criticize me and be like, “River could also pilot the TARDIS!”
Talia Franks: But River was like her whole own thing. So she really doesn’t count. (Lucia stifles laughter) Like of the main of the main companions. I feel like Yaz is the one that’s best able to, like fully work in sync with The Doctor, in a way that I don’t think I’ve seen many other companions do, like she didn’t need guidance.
Talia Franks: Other companions, I feel like, have been told what to do, but Yaz was like, I need to do this thing. Like, I know what I’m doing. Whereas The Doctor has often told other companions, like pull this thing, do that thing, do that thing.
Lucia Kelly: I just very very quickly want to talk about, how I find it fascinating. How closed off The Doctor is. The Doctor is not communicating. She is not telling Yaz what’s going on. She is very clearly fighting for control that she does not have. (Talia mhmms) Um, and it is, and we are very clearly setting up, a downfall like this is all going to backfire on The Doctor pretty quickly and likely probability is that Yaz is going to be involved in that fallout, which is like, that’s kind of, what’s being set up here is that there’s this miscommunication, there’s this disconnect between The Doctor and Yaz, The Doctor is refusing to talk and communicate properly. And because of that and because maybe, um, Yaz does have this confidence and this knowledge and this freedom, uh, that may lead them both down paths that we may not want to watch them go down. Um, but I’m very interested to watch and look and see.
Talia Franks: We have a minute left, so funky, fabulous or foul? What do you think?
Lucia Kelly: I would put this episode firmly in the fabulous category. I really enjoyed it.
Talia Franks: Yeah. I was going to say it’s definitely fabulous. I, I was leaning towards funky just because it’s so weird and so chaotic, but no, I really do think it’s pretty fabulous. I got about halfway through watching it for a second time up until the weeping angels, but then I had to go to sleep.
Talia Franks: Because we’re recording at 5:30 in the morning. And I was like, it’s midnight thirty. I need to go to bed.
Lucia Kelly: Yes. I have all, listeners, listeners. I have already berated Talia about this. You do not. You do not, but it is recommended, that you go to Twitter and tell them off again, but (Talia cackles) they’ve already had a thorough beat down.
Lucia Kelly: It’s okay. (Talia continues to snicker) Um, yeah, I do also think the reason that I’m putting it so firmly in the fabulous category is that as I said, it is very clearly just like, I feel like once we have all of Flux, the first episode is going to make a whole lot more sense and we’re going to appreciate it even more. So it’s kind of a, a fabulous in advance.
Talia Franks: Yeah, I will say that this is reminding me a lot of Christopher Eccleston’s audio dramas and specifically Ravagers, which did not make any sense with the first episode. It’s very Wibbly Wobbly, but once I listened to all of the Ravagers episodes, I was like, this makes so much sense. And then I really listened to the first episode and I was like, ohhhhhh okay. Um.
Talia Franks: So I think once you have like the whole arc, it makes a lot more sense when you have a bunch of episodes in like a cohesive story like this.
Lucia Kelly: Halloween apocalypse was real cool. They did a lot of it did a lot of different things.
Lucia Kelly: It truly was living in chaos, but in a good way I am looking forward. I find it actually cruel. I find it actually a little bit, a little bit rude that we have to wait until next week for the next installment. Yeah.
Talia Franks: My life motto is when in doubt, choose chaos so. Well I have two mottos I have when in doubt, choose chaos and embrace the chaos within. So, everyone. Do that y’all. See you next week.
Lucia Kelly: See you next week. Bye.
Talia Franks: This has been the Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Podcast.
Lucia Kelly: We hope you enjoyed this adventure with us through space and time.
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Lucia Kelly: You can find out more information about us and our content on wibblywobblytimeywimey.net And full transcripts for episodes at wibblywobblytimeywimey.net/transcripts
Talia Franks: If you’d like to get in touch, you can send us an email at email@example.com.
Lucia Kelly: Please rate and review us on apple podcasts and other platforms as it helps other people find us and our content.
Talia Franks: Special thanks to our editor Owen Elphick, who has been a vital member of the Wibbly Wobbly team.
Lucia Kelly: That’s all for now. Catch you in the time vortex!