Talia Franks: Hello, and welcome to the Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Podcast!

Lucia Kelly: I’m Lucia Kelly, expert at applied narcissist and vial of anti-plastic.

Talia Franks: And, and I’m Talia Franks, media critic, fanfic enthusiast and paperback with a sad ending.

Lucia Kelly: And we’re here today for a Wibbly Wobbly Minisode! First anniversary edition.

Talia Franks: Today is our one-year anniversary!

Lucia Kelly: Reminder the time is not a straight line. It can twist into any shape and as such, this is a fully spoiled podcast. We might bring things in from later in the show, the comics, the books, the audio dramas, the BBC press releases, or even fan theories and articles.

Talia Franks: With that out of the way, Ncuti Gatwa is the Doctor!

Talia Franks: So let’s get into the TARDIS!

Talia Franks: Ooooo weeeee wooooo

Lucia Kelly: Ooooooo

Talia Franks: We actually do that in between every single episode. But until now we’ve always cut it out. But because our anniversary episode, I’m leaving it in.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah, no, we should absolutely cut together a master of all the ones that we’ve done because, they are many and various. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Yeah, one day we will release the Oooo weeee oooo cut. (Talia and Lucia laugh)

Lucia Kelly: Just all Oooo weeee oooos.

Talia Franks: Just all oooo weeee oooos. (Talia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: But before we get into the crazy exciting casting news and everything that’s been happening for the 60th anniversary, Talia we’ve been doing this for a whole year! (Lucia laughs and Talia makes a shout of excitement)

Talia Franks: It’s been a whole year. Oh my God.

Lucia Kelly: This is a wild ride. I did not. For all of you lore heads out there. I believe there are a few of you that might even have known this podcast in its baby stages which released years ago with a different co-host, so, (Lucia laughs) which lasted about three episodes. So that we’ve actually managed to stick it out and do this whole new thing.

Lucia Kelly: And like we’ve done, we’ve covered like a crazy amount of the original show we got to guest on Gallifrey Public Radio, just super recently. It was a wild and very cool experience. Been to Gally, we’ve been to Supanova, we got to meet so many of the cast and crew, and it’s just been really exciting and a wild, exciting, very fun, cool journey.

Lucia Kelly: And I’m so happy to have been able to do it with you. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Yeah. I’m, I’m so happy that I’ve been able to do this with you. It’s been, it’s been a wild, crazy fun ride, but it’s been so, so fun. This podcast has been one of, one of the highlights and one of the quite frankly, one of the only good things in what has been a really sucky year.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. It’s been rough. Yeah, no, just aside from the podcast, I’m about to get really mushy, but like meeting with you constantly, like regularly, like on the clock, just having you on call, and like literally, we’ve only started recording this session an hour after we were meant to, (Lucia laughs) because we were just chatting and talking about stuff and catching up and like keeping each other, like updating each other on what’s been happening.

Lucia Kelly: And you very quickly become one of my closest friends, which has been really lovely as well. I got a friend out of it as well. I don’t,

Talia Franks: Yeah!

Lucia Kelly: I haven’t let all of the success. Go to my head. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Yeah, definitely. I like to tell people that I’m like, “oh yeah, One of my, one of my best friends. She lives in Australia, so sometimes I have to wake up at 4:00 AM to talk to her, but it’s worth it.”

Lucia Kelly: Yeah, so it’s been a really I feel like wild is the word of the hour, but it has been a wild ride. And what has been so lovely as well is that we sent out a little survey to all of our listeners. We put it up on Twitter and broadcast it and advertised it as far as we were able.

Lucia Kelly: And we managed to get some lovely responses back from you guys, which has been so fun to read over. And we just wanted to talk to you guys about what our plans for the future are; just as retrospective on the year that’s been and yeah, see, what’s see what we might do differently, what really worked, and then we might, we might even be able to squeeze in that news segment at the end of the show, so, (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Yeah. Yeah. And I really one thing I really appreciated about all of you who responded to the survey is that y’all have been around since the beginning.

Lucia Kelly: Mhmm.

Talia Franks: It’s so great. To see that in the responses y’all been like, “Yeah. I’ve been listening since the first episode since y’all started.” And it’s been so great to just see that y’all have been with us on this journey as we’ve learned and grew. And ranted and raved about how much we loved each episode and how much he didn’t love certain episodes.

Lucia Kelly: The, the fact that any of you stuck around after that first episode is honestly amazing.

Lucia Kelly: Thank you so much. I re-listened to it recently. Boy, howdy have we grown! (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Yeah. There’s a reason that I don’t listen back to our episodes. I only read, I reread the transcripts, but I don’t like listening back to the older episodes because I’m like, oh God, oh God. Oh God. But I really, one thing I noticed is that in the response is y’all were like, “I really appreciate your transcripts.”

Talia Franks: And that makes it worth it because those transcripts are difficult. (Lucia laughs) And I appreciate y’all also sticking around with our slightly irregular release schedule, which not going to lie. It’s partially because of the transcripts. (Lucia mhmms) Those can be hard to get out.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah, no listening back on the same 15 seconds of dialogue and being like, is that what I said two weeks ago?

Lucia Kelly: It is certainly an experience. I would not wish on my worst enemy, but it is all worth it at the end of the day. And, yeah. It’s great to be able to have that record for ourselves and for all you guys.

Talia Franks: Yeah. And I do just want to give a shout out of an appreciation. Owen and Dee who have acted as editors on this podcast with us on this journey.

Talia Franks: Owen was the first editor that worked with us. He ended up leaving the podcast, but we still really appreciate him. He’s great. He’s a good friend. And you know, we’re totally wishing wishing him well on all of his projects. And you know, just shout out Owen, we really appreciate you.

Talia Franks: And also Dee, who prefers to remain on the quieter side. So we’re not really gonna, disclose anything about her, but just, just know that we really appreciate you Dee, you’re great.

Lucia Kelly: Yup. Yup. You’re excellent, it’s great. To be able to be like, oh, thank goodness. (Lucia laughs) Someone else can take care of that.

Talia Franks: Yeah. It’s, it’s just been such a such a real privilege to create these things for everyone.

Talia Franks: And we know that we’re not that we’re not perfect in that sometimes. Sometimes we, we get a little bit a little bit harsh maybe is, is one word for it. But, you know, we’re still learning. And we’re definitely going to be taking, taking in some of the feedback that we’ve gotten and incorporating it into future episodes.

Talia Franks: Though I will say we do prerecord a lot of our episodes. So all of our, all of our episodes for season two, going forward, have already been recorded as have most of our episodes for season three.

Lucia Kelly: I’m pretty sure all that we’ve got left to season three is the three-part finale. So, any of the changes that we’re going to be taking forward, don’t expect to see any of them until then,

Talia Franks: Except for any of the reaction episodes, all those are going to be going forward, we’ll be incorporating changes and feedback and such, but the rest of our season two episodes and the first batch of our season three episodes are going to be in a sort of older format and style. But yeah, we do really, really appreciate the feedback.

(Transition wobbles)

Talia Franks: We’re going to be answering a couple of questions. One of them was whether or not we have any plans to talk about Torchwood and Sarah Jane adventures which we’ve gotten that question in this Q&A but we’ve also gotten that question a few other places. Like Lucia mentioned we were featured on Gallifrey Public Radio. I was also a guest on Canonically Incorrect. I got this question there. I also got the question of whether or not we’re going to cover Classic Who, I deflected. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: But we are in the cover it at some point in some form, Lucia, do you want to talk more about it?

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. So, basically at the moment we’re focusing on our recaps of the 2005 era onwards or new who I guess. I know Talia, you’re a huge fan of the Sarah Jane Adventures and I am too. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: And, and I am not a huge fan of Torchwood.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. So I would put a firm bet on, we will be covering The Sarah Jane Adventures at some point in the future. Or maybe as a special Patreon bonus, because exclusive news, we will be opening a Patreon at the end of season two, which is very exciting.

Talia Franks: Yeah. We will be opening a Patreon at the end of season two, which season two we’ll be concluding.

Talia Franks: Probably at some point during the summer depending on how much new news we get. (Talia laughs softly) Because we keep getting new news and we keep inserting more bonus episodes. And I know that we were originally going to be inserting bonus episodes in between regular releases. But we ended up deciding to just cycle them into our regular two-week release schedule instead of instead of always making them in-between new episodes.

Talia Franks: So, like for example, when we did Legend of the Sea Devils, we immediately then released our Centennial Special episode afterwards. But then we waited another two weeks before releasing Idiot’s Lantern. So, like I said, you irregular schedule, but we are trying to, we are trying to space it out and be somewhat regular.

Talia Franks: In our release schedule. But like I said, these bonus episodes that we’re making as more news comes out, are kind of, kind of throwing a wrench into the works. But we will probably be releasing some episodes about at least Sarah Jane adventures. Maybe Torchwood. The problem with talking about Torchwood is that it causes me pain (Lucia laughs) and I don’t like being in pain.

Talia Franks: And also

Lucia Kelly: That’s what makes us so different. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Um, and also I don’t know with us spending too much time talking about new who, how much we’re going to want to talk about Torchwood, especially if RTD ends up introducing more Doctor Who spinoffs in the future. Particularly because he was at one point in the past before he became show runner again, noting how much he wished that I forget what exactly he said, but he was quoted as saying that he wished Doctor Who was more like the MCU with more interconnected spin-offs and with him as show runner.

Talia Franks: That may happen again, because remember Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood happened under his watch.

Talia Franks: Also not going to lie. I really, really, really want to talk about Class, which I loved Class so much, including there’s like this really good Class fanfic that I read that was like, chef’s kiss. (Lucia laughs) Um, anyway, but we won’t get into that.

Lucia Kelly: That’s our stance at the moment on Torchwood and Sarah Jane.

Talia Franks: Yeah.

Lucia Kelly: If it does prove too painful for Talia, I might give Torchwood a go maybe by myself, maybe with different co-host who knows? We’ll see, but cause I, I vaguely, I haven’t given Torchwood a lot of my time. I do remember having a rather traumatic experience of watching it far too young, when I was like, Twelve? And then suddenly being like, “oh, I thought this was Doctor Who! It’s not.” (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Yeah, no. I remember watching Torchwood in, when I was in like high school. And, I thought it was like, Doctor Who, so I was like, perfectly fine watching it with my mom. And then in the second episode, there’s like a very graphic sex scene.

Talia Franks: And I was like, oh my God, nooooooooo. Cuz, there was, there was me like 15 years old, like not wanting to talk to my mom about that. Like the thing is so I had like I consider myself as someone who was at that age, you know, like fairly well educated? Like it’s not like my sex education had been, like, neglected or anything. It’s just I didn’t want to talk about it with my mom. It was like, she made sure that I had all the facts and that I would be able to, you know, talk to her about any of the like logistics. And if I had any questions, you know, we had that sort of openness, but we also didn’t want to watch sex scenes together.

Talia Franks: But speaking of sex education,

Lucia Kelly: hey, there we go!

Talia Franks: While are going to save most of the discussion of new casting news for our news segment. Two different people asked us about Ncuti Gatwa. So one of them, one person asks us what we thought of RTD’s 14th Doctor choice, and another person said, “Who do I have to bribe to get Jo Martin/ Ncuti Gatwa multiple Doctor episode, and can we start a GoFundMe now?”

Lucia Kelly: I mean, I’m with that person, I would also like a Jo Martin, Ncuti Gatwa multiple Doctor episode. And frankly I would regard it rude of RTD not to provide us with such. I feel weird saying, but I feel like we covered a lot of what we think about the casting choice in our guest episode, so, um. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: We did cover a lot of what we think about the casting choice in our guest episode on Gallifrey Public Radio. But I do want to talk about it a little bit here just because, you know, this is, this is our home on the podcast. And I would, you know, also like to like to talk about it a little bit here.

Talia Franks: I think the casting choice was absolutely brilliant. I love Ncuti Gatwa on Sex Education. I think that he is a brilliant actor. He just has such such a mix of… the words that are coming to my brain, are vulnerability and pizazz. (Lucia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: And both the true,

Talia Franks: And

Lucia Kelly: like right?

Talia Franks: And both are so true, ’cause, he really brings his all to every scene. And you know, in the more like truly emotional scenes, he’s very… it’s like pulling, pulling my heart straight out of my chest in tossing it on the floor with the amount of passion and emotion.

Talia Franks: And it’s like the kind of thing that I’ve come to expect from a Doctor. He also has such a vibrancy and like, a range of facial expression and a range of just, you know, a range of, in which he presents himself. And I’ve also said it before, and I’ll say it again, like the way he dresses is just his whole fits are just like chef’s kids.

Talia Franks: Like he, he dresses like a Doctor. He really does. I feel like, I would just love a tour of his closet. Um, (Lucia laughs) Honestly, it’s just so, so great.

Talia Franks: Everything he does is just 110%. And I think he’s going to make a wonderful, fantastic Doctor. And I’m just so excited. I’m so, so excited. I also think, going forward I’m glad that we’re seeing more diversity in casting choices because you know, we’ve had a white woman Doctor. We’ve had a Black woman Doctor. Now we have a Black man as a Doctor, like I’m excited for going forward in the future, getting more people who aren’t white men as the Doctor. I’d really love to continue seeing more Doctors of different ethnicities and genders.

Talia Franks: Like I’d love to see like another, another Doctor that’s played by a woman of color. A Doctor that’s played by like a man of color who is not Black. It would be wonderful to see like a Doctor who is South Asian. It would be wonderful to see a Doctor who is just from a different background from what we’ve seen before.

Talia Franks: And I know a lot of people are upset that it wasn’t another woman who was cast as the Doctor. I’m honestly not that upset because I honestly have concerns about how well RTD and other writers would write a woman as the Doctor, just considering track records of how women have been portrayed in Doctor Who in the past.

Talia Franks: And I think until we have an increased and consistent presence of women writing Doctor Who, and of more women of color writing Doctor Who more. Like women having power in the Doctor Who production space. I am really nervous and wary. I’m also really really cautious about how fandom in general reacts to

Talia Franks: I’m very cautious of fandom reaction. And that’s not to say that. I think that a woman of color shouldn’t play the Doctor just because of fandom reaction. And I think there’s many fans would love to see a woman of color in the role. But I just worry that if there’s a woman of color in the role and it’s not done well, then it’ll never be done again.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah, no, it’s a real it’s one of the great sort of well, one of the really annoying things about pushing for representation in that way is that The majority are allowed to make as many mediocre films, as many mediocre TV shows, you know, things that don’t push the envelope or try anything new.

Lucia Kelly: They can keep making that as long as people will come. And because people don’t recognize that part of the reason that they enjoy those films is that they give them representation because they’re so used to the fact that everything is representation to them. Suddenly anything that deviates from that expected norm, needs to be the best.

Lucia Kelly: It needs to be a pinnacle. There’s no space allowed for mediocre or just ordinary products that center people that fall into any kind of minority and it sucks, uh

Talia Franks: Yeah.

Lucia Kelly: But to give my opinion on, Ncuti Gatwa being cast? I also love it. I also think it’s brilliant casting. I also want to say that I’ve fucking called it. Because I’m not sure if I said it on air, but I’m not even sure that we’ve had this conversation between ourselves Talia, but I’ve definitely had conversations with people where the casting of the Master predicts the casting of the Doctor. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: I, yeah, we I’m not sure if we’ve specifically talked about this, but I’ve definitely had this conversation with other people. And I agree. I’ve also,

Lucia Kelly: Yeah

Talia Franks: We

Lucia Kelly: Yeah

Talia Franks: I’ve also predicted this.

Lucia Kelly: So we get Missy, and then we get Thirteen, we get Dhawan, and now we get Gatwa, and I’m so excited, so happy. I think that Gatwa is such a beautifully, both generous and giving actor.

Lucia Kelly: It’s one of the things that really set apart actors of quality, I guess. You’ll notice it a lot in which makes sense. I was going to say, you notice it a lot in Shakespearean actors and I’m like, and Gatwa is but it takes real presence of mind to be both completely present in the scene and also recognize that while your character thinks they’re the main character you are not the main character of the whatever you’re producing, like being able to step back and give other people their time, their scenes while still giving 110% and being fully in the role.

Lucia Kelly: And Gatwa, you know, exemplifies that so incredibly. And I think that we are in store for some pretty incredible Doctor scenes. I cannot wait.

Talia Franks: Same, same.

 (Transition wobbles)

Talia Franks: So the final question, um, we didn’t get that many questions. But that’s fine! Not everyone who responded gave us a question, but that’s okay. We just really appreciated all responses, questions or no. All the questions were optional, so some people answered some questions and didn’t answer others.

Talia Franks: And that’s totally fine because there are a lot of questions on the survey and I’ve definitely answered surveys where I only answered half the questions. (Lucia and Talia laugh) Cause I was like the survey is too many questions and I don’t feel like filling out all over the cause this was one of those surveys where there was a bunch of like multiple choice ones.

Talia Franks: And then there was a few places where you had to like type in the box and I totally understand not having the spoons to think of a question and type it in the box. (Talia laughs while saying um)

Talia Franks: So very much fine if you answered the survey and didn’t ask us a question. Valid.

Talia Franks: But, final question is: has doing the podcast make you think differently about Doctor Who?

Lucia Kelly: Yes. (Lucia bursts into laughter and Talia starts laughing tooq)

Lucia Kelly: Yes. Is the answer. For one thing, I just think about Doctor Who more. It’s just in my brain more than it usually than it used to be. And also just the podcast as a whole is in my brain more so something will happen just in my day to day and I’d be like, oh, I’ve got to tell Talia about that when we meet up next.

Lucia Kelly: But yeah, also just on a, just also literally thinking about the show as it is. I like often when I’m talking about this show to other people or Introducing it or whatever. The way I often talk about it is you know, my friend Talia and I, we talk about Doctor Who and analyze it far too much. (Lucia and Talia laughe)

Lucia Kelly: Like, we give it far too much credit or like we delve into it and give it like we dive into it with the far to close a lens. And, in a way that’s true. You know? I don’t think anyone’s expecting two folk like ourselves to go in with our giant magnifying glass and ask, what does it look like when we gaze, when, what does this episode look like when we gaze at it through a trauma lens? (Talia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: Or like, how is representation here good or bad? You know, I don’t think that’s really at the top of anyone priorities when they’re making the thing. So it has been interesting seeing all of the sort of delicious nuance that we’ve been able to pull out. And it certainly made me pay more attention to the show when, where I think before I was an enthusiastic fan, but I wasn’t necessarily an analytical one. And that’s got a lot to do with, the last time I was regularly like really avidly watching the show I was a lot younger. And I’ve grown since then both as a person and as an analyst. But it’s also got to do with the way that doing the show has changed the way I just view the program for the better, I think. It’s been a really fun journey. Yeah.

Talia Franks: I’m really glad you went first because I have a very different viewpoint that I think would have colored yours. (Lucia laughs and Talia laughs while saying um)

Talia Franks: So for me, previous to 2020 most of my fandom energy and my critical fandom energy was focused on Harry Potter. And then I got really with everything that happened in JK Rowling and her sort of shitty nonsense and everything.

Talia Franks: I realized that I didn’t really want to be associated with Harry Potter anymore. But I didn’t want to stop doing critical fandom and analysis. And so I was trying to decide what fandom to shift my gears to, because I’ve always been very interested in critical fandom critical analysis. And I’ve always been really interested in Doctor Who. It’s the fandom that I was like super interested in, but I wasn’t as fully invested in it as I was in Harry Potter. And like I did, you know, some Doctor Who cosplay, I had I had a fair bit of Doctor who merch. I’ve always been very analytical and critical of Doctor Who. Doctor Who has been one of my main fandoms and like one of the things that I’ve loved analyzing and looking at since I was in high school. I definitely have a very critical lens of Doctor Who, and I’ve had it for a very long time.

Talia Franks: But I wasn’t like, you know, really in contact with other people who were really into Doctor Who like I was I was like, I was in the Boston Whovians Facebook group. I knew some other Whovians that were local in the Boston area, but I wasn’t like super super active in the way that I am now.

Talia Franks: So basically I just I just decided that, you know, I wanted to I wanted to get more active particularly because I had more time and energy to devote to Doctor Who as I shed my my attachment to Harry Potter because Doctor Who really had been something that was fundamental to me in some really big ways but it just hadn’t been my priority for a long time.

Talia Franks: But it was something that the more I thought about it and the more I critiqued it and analyzed it, the more I realized it had like truly shaped me since I was in high school. And so that’s why I decided to become more active in it. Even before this podcast, I, you know, written some articles for about Doctor Who mostly for Nerdist. And then when I wanted to start a podcast I ended up starting a fanfic podcast first, which you guested on. That podcast has since gone on hiatus, because I just haven’t had, I didn’t have time to work on two podcasts and have a job and deal with all the nonsense that’s been going on in my personal life. So I decided to I decided to put Into the Archives on hiatus just until, (Talia sighs) just until I can make more make more time to do creative.

Talia Franks: Like in an ideal world, I would be doing creative projects full time. And if I was doing that, then I would have time for two podcasts. But I don’t. I still have a day job to do. So I actually have two day jobs. So I have a lot to do in not a lot of time. So. But one thing that I do constantly prioritize is Doctor Who because it is (The sound of something falling to the ground) sorry I dropped my fidget spinner.

Talia Franks: One thing that I do really love and appreciate is Doctor Who. And it is it is something I have found has really grounded me in times of trouble.

Ad Break

Talia Franks: I mean, We could talk about all our feels about having about having been doing this for a year for a while. I just wanna do a couple shout outs. So, shout out to BGC, Black Girls Create. Y’all been a really supportive community. I know a lot of you listen to the podcast.

Talia Franks: I know that I know a lot of you who responded to the survey said that that’s how you found us. So just shout out to y’all.

Lucia Kelly: Well, also that’s the way that we met. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Yeah. And yeah, and that’s also just the way that we met was through BGC.

Lucia Kelly: This podcast literally would not exist if BGC did not exist before hand.

Lucia Kelly: We

Talia Franks: Yeah

Lucia Kelly: met each other because we both listened to that podcast and we’re part of that discord. And or as it was previously the Slack RIP (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Yeah. R I P Slacky. (Talia and Lucia laugh)

Lucia Kelly: But yeah, no, so, and it was after that, I guested on Into the Archives that like, we’d kind of, tossed around the idea of maybe doing a podcast together.

Lucia Kelly: And at least the way I remember it Talia you like, well, guest on guest on, Into The Archives and we’ll see how it goes.

Talia Franks: And I barely knew how to pronounce your name, (Lucia laughs) except for the fact that your username, your username was Lucia like Fuschia. (Talia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: Yeah.

Talia Franks: That’s the only reason I knew how to pronounce your name.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah. It’s so wild to think about. We really didn’t know each other very well when this project first started. And,

Talia Franks: Yeah no, and now you’re one of the first people that I text when I’m having a crisis. (Lucia laughed)

Talia Franks: I’m like Lucia, this horrible thing happened to me, (Lucia, Laughing, says “Ditto”) I’m so, I’m like Lucia I had this horrible thing happened to me. I’m so upset.

Lucia Kelly: And I’ll be like, okay, well, let’s take it from the beginning. Big breath, drink some water. Let’s let’s deal with this properly. (Lucia laughs) But yeah. So it’s wild. So we finished that. I did the episode on, Into the Archives and afterwards we were both like…

Lucia Kelly: “That went… I had a really fun time that went really well. Do you, do you want to do this?”

Lucia Kelly: And…

Talia Franks: Yeah

Lucia Kelly: now we are a year later.

Talia Franks: Yeah

Lucia Kelly: So yeah, massive shout out to BGC.

Talia Franks: Yeah. And also a shout out to Elizabeth. Who responded to a lot of our questions, with lots and lots of detail.

Lucia Kelly: We really appreciate it.

Talia Franks: We really appreciate it. Also shout out to the person who said they really liked the Father’s Day episode, which was very stressful for me to record. Cause Father’s Day is very emotional episode. Appreciate you. So made it worth it, even though it caused me pain. We also noticed that when we asked who’s favorite, who y’alls every Doctor was lots of love for the Fugitive Doctor and Ten. Also, Nine, Twelve, Thirteen, and four lovers out there. Um, sorry, to Eleven and all the classics.

Lucia Kelly: We’ll give Eleven his love when we get there, eventually

Talia Franks: We’ll get there. Yeah. And we are at some point considering live streams on either Instagram or YouTube. It’s kind of funny. We asked on the survey whether or not people would prefer live streams on Instagram or YouTube, it was very evenly split.

Talia Franks: So now we’re not really sure which one we want to do. Oh, well.

Lucia Kelly: Oh, well, we’ll see. We might test both and see.

Talia Franks: We might do. One of each. Anyway. Yeah. So again, amazing that everyone responded has been listening since the beginning. We appreciate y’all so much. Yeah. And this thank you for listening.

Talia Franks: Love y’all

Lucia Kelly: Love y’all

(Transition wobbles)

Lucia Kelly: Do we want to talk about news!?

Talia Franks: We do want to talk about news! We want to talk about news!

Lucia Kelly: There have been so many news!

Talia Franks: Yeah. (Lucia laughs) So for those of you who don’t want to listen to casting news speculation all sorts of, potential spoilery things about what might be happening.

Talia Franks: Stop listening here, we appreciate you.

Lucia Kelly: We appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Talia Franks: We appreciate you. Thank you so much. But we’re about to start talking spoiling stuff. So feel free to dip, feel free to dip!

Lucia Kelly: We welcome you out the door. Grab your gift basket on the way out. Love you. (Lucia laughs)

 (Transition wobbles)

Talia Franks: Yeah, so, Ncuti Gatwa? Ten and Donna? Yasmin Finney? Rachel Talalay?

Lucia Kelly: It’s all happening!

Talia Franks: It’s all happening!

Talia Franks: And we’re going to be like, we’re recording this on the 23rd. We’re not releasing this until the 27th, like who knows what’s going to happen in the next four days? Cause we’re also recording this like very early in the morning, like 5:00 AM Eastern time. So something might drop later today and I’ll be like, “Fuck.”

Lucia Kelly: “Lucia’s asleep now.” (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: So what do we want to talk about first?

Lucia Kelly: What do we want to talk about first? As much as I love Ncuti, I think we’ve given him his time. Let’s talk about Ten and Donna. Oh my gosh. Ten and Donna are coming back. I’m so excited. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: They are coming back. I am very excited. I’m (Talia sighs) I’m very excited. I’m a little, I’m a little nervous because I’ve noticed that almost like nowhere in like official promotion that I’ve seen has Ncuti Gatwa been announced as the 14th Doctor. (Lucia hmms)

Talia Franks: So I’m a little, and especially with like Thirteen’s thing in the trailer about “no regenerations” in like at the end of Flux and in the trailer. And like a lot of people have been speculating with, there might be some like reverse regeneration thing about so have you heard this theory?

Lucia Kelly: No I haven’t, please do tell.

Talia Franks: Yeah. So there’s a theory that Thirteen, instead of regenerating forwards is going to regenerate backwards. And so the reason that Tennant is appearing is because she’s gonna regress into Ten and then Ncuti is (Lucia: ohhhhh) going to be one of her past pre Hartnell regenerations that she’s going to regenerate into.

Lucia Kelly: Interesting.

Talia Franks: Yeah,

Lucia Kelly: that would, that would certainly be a way to do it.

Talia Franks: Other people are saying that maybe she’s going to regenerate into Ten because she’s just going to like reuse faces or something? (Lucia hmmms) And so Ten is going to be the 14th Doctor.

Talia Franks: There’s a lot of theories spinning around. Um,

Lucia Kelly: Yeah.

Talia Franks: But I will be, (Talia starts laughing as they speak) so upset, if David Tennant becomes the Fourteenth Doctor. (Lucia starts laughing) Cause he was already Ten and Ten and a half. I don’t want him to get 14 to that’s so, like, I know that, there’s a point where like, Eleven jokes that like Ten had was really addicted to that face or whatever. (Talia laughs while saying um) I forget what the exact line is, but like, really it’s excessive. (Lucia hmms) And like, I know some people are like really annoyed that David Tennant keeps coming back, but honestly, he just really loves Doctor Who and really enjoys being the Doctor. I’m like, honestly, I’m not mad about Tennant coming back for like potential multi-Doctor stories or returning. I just want him to be in the background and de-prioritized.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah, definitely.

Talia Franks: I want him to be, if he’s going to come back, I want it to be a multi-Doctor story where he is in the background and whoever is the primary Doctor at that point.

Talia Franks: Whether or not it’s Whitaker or Gatwa, whoever I want Ten to be secondary.

Lucia Kelly: Theory that I’ve heard is the multi-verse theory, basically that because the other big, the big question that, of course everyone is asking and everyone’s wondering about is, well, how does Donna fit into all of this?

Lucia Kelly: Right? Like we, we, we need to talk about Donna. We need to solve the Donna problem. So, the sort of two theories that I’ve seen in tandem is one that the Ten and Donna, that we’re going to see in the 60th are not going to be our Ten and Donna, they’re going to be a Ten and Donna from a different universe, which also feeds into this sort of, ties it back into Thirteen, not being of the world. And or like the Doctor generally just like tying that into the timeless children arc and finalizing that whole storyline explaining the wormhole and you know, her parents maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe with I’m I mean, I know we didn’t get to see Bel, but… (Lucia sighs)

Talia Franks: I really don’t want Bel and Vinder to be her parents. (Lucia wheezes laughter) I just want them to be regular space people vibing.

Lucia Kelly: You know, we couldn’t do that. (Lucia laughs) Well, I remember (Talia sighs) we were talking at the end of Flux about how it was so weird that the pregnancy storyline didn’t have a conclusion as such, it was present, but not, you know, taken one way or the other.

Lucia Kelly: So the, the common theory is that Ten and Donna are not going to be our Ten and Donna. And also that the new Rose, Yasmin Rose, is going to be Donna’s daughter.

Talia Franks: Yeah. I mean, so two things, one, I don’t think the pregnancy storyline has to go anywhere. I think she was just pregnant because people being pregnant in media is just a plot device most of the time. So sometimes it’s a plot device, because the baby’s important and sometimes it’s just a plot device because it’s a driving force that motivates whoever the parents are because it’s like, “oh, this person is super important” or like “we’re going to prioritize this person’s story because they’re pregnant.”

Talia Franks: And it heightens the stakes if someone is pregnant, whether or not the baby itself is important, having someone be pregnant, heightens the stakes and adds tension to a relationship.

Talia Franks: Anyway but secondly, I think it does make sense for Rose to be Donna’s daughter. Especially because in some of the set photos,

Talia Franks: Really leave now if you don’t want potential spoilers, we won’t blame you.

Talia Franks: In some of the set photos, we see Rose, Yasmin Finney’s character with Sylvia, Donna’s mum. Like we I have been trying to avoid set photos, but I like saw one on Twitter, just scrolling through Twitter of Sylvia and Rose like in an embrace, like very, very grandmother and granddaughter-esq.

Talia Franks: So I’m just saying it would make sense for them to be connected. And also this is getting a bit meta here, but it would make sense for a trans character to only be a one-off character in Doctor Who, because that is too progressive. (Talia laughs sarcastically)

Lucia Kelly: (Sarcastically) The world isn’t ready for a Black Doctor and a Black trans companion.

Talia Franks: Yeah. And also, also it would make sense because Heartstopper, which, um, Yasmin Finney is most known for, and is a main character in, just got renewed for two more seasons. And it would not get renewed for two more seasons if one of the main characters (Talia lets out a small laugh) was about to be a main character in another giant TV show.

Talia Franks: Yeah. Also speaking of Heartstopper, it’s directed by Euros Lyn, who we’ve been mispronouncing his name for several episodes. We are very sorry.

Lucia Kelly: We’re so sorry, we’re both people that get our names mispronounced all the time. So we know the pain.

Talia Franks: I’m especially sorry, because I have been trying to learn Welsh, which is part of how I realized that I was pronouncing it wrong. (Talia laughs)

Talia Franks: I’ve been trying to teach myself Welsh, I’ve been low key considering moving to Wales. Just because I have, I have personal reasons for wanting to move to Wales, (Talia laughs while saying um) but anyway, but I’ve been trying to teach myself Welsh for reasons and I realized I was mispronouncing his name, so I’m very sorry. (Talia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: We’ll do better in the future.

Talia Franks: You’re a great director, Heartstopper is beautiful.

Lucia Kelly: So the final sort of casting, production, hiring news that we’ve got literally so recently actually is Rachel Talalay is going to be directing the 60th, which we are both so excited about.

Talia Franks: I am so, so excited about. So, Rachel Talalay directed Heaven Sent and Hell Bent, and also directed Dark Water and Death in Heaven. And also, World Enough in Time and The Doctor Falls, but I don’t really like those episodes not because of her directing! Just because I don’t like those episodes. And she directed Twice Upon a Time.

Talia Franks: So basically she directed every every finale of series 8, 9, 10. She directed all of those two-part finales and she directed Peter Capaldi’s last episode the Christmas 2017 special I, aside from World Enough in Time and The Doctor Falls, which I don’t like, because of what happens to Bill but which are beautifully directed.

Talia Franks: Every single one of her episodes, I just absolutely love the direction. Particularly Heaven Sent, oh my God. The direction of Heaven Sent is just so beautiful. Like it’s, it’s,

Talia Franks: So Heaven Sent, for those of you who don’t remember or those of you who just don’t know is an episode in which it’s almost entirely just the Twelfth Doctor.

Talia Franks: So it’s just Peter Capaldi, he’s in isolation. And he basically is living in a time loop. And he’s trapped in this weird like castle and he’s being haunted by a figure that’s trying to find out all of his secrets. And it’s called, his confession dial, he’s about to die, it’s really complicated. But it’s just beautifully directed because it’s basically Peter Capaldi is acting out variations of the same scene over and over and over again. And he’s basically what he’s doing is he’s dying over and over and over again and just resetting and so he’s basically reliving these same moments for billions of years. Until he it’s like kind of a weird premise. He ends up punching a hole through a wall of diamonds. It’s kind of weird. But it’s just so beautifully directed. This is an episode where you can really, really see the direction because you can see how every single moment is pieced together so beautifully because Capaldi’s acting and Rachel Talalay’s direction in this episode, really, really shine. And it’s honestly makes me want to cry. It’s so beautiful. And Hell Bent, which is the sequel episode is also so intense and beautifully directed. And I just, yeah, those two episodes are honestly just so, so gorgeous. And I can’t express enough how much I adore them.

Talia Franks: And I think those two episodes honestly are why I have such an intense fondness for season nine. Because I like season nine in general. I think it’s my favorite season of Moffat’s era as showrunner and Peter Capaldi’s era as a Doctor. But I think in general one of the reasons why I love that season so much is the finale Heaven Sent and Hell Bent.

Talia Franks: It’s just so, so gorgeous. Sorry. Now I’ve just gone on a rant about how much I love Capaldi and Rachel Talalay but it’s so, so good. So, so good. I can’t, I cannot express enough how excited I am that she’s coming back. Because so, so good.

Lucia Kelly: And if that isn’t a recommendation.

Talia Franks: Yeah. I honestly, I honestly think now that I’ve just gone on that little rant, I’m going to go watch Hell Bent (Lucia laughs) and, I’m going to go watch Heaven Sent and Hell Bent later today. (Talia laughs) Maybe I’m going to finish editing this episode first, but once I finished editing this episode, I’m going to go watch Heaven Sent and Hell Bent, because it’s so fucking good. It’s just such a fucking good pair of episodes. Ugh. I need to rewatch all of season nine, actually just because, just because it’s so, so good. And you’re a hater, you need to watch Capaldi’s era!

Lucia Kelly: I will definitely watch it. Eventually. In the future. When the time comes. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: You’re so annoying. You’re so annoying. (Transition wobbles)

Lucia Kelly: So I guess the last thing we want to talk about is kind of, hopes and fears for the upcoming RTD era and what we’re kind of hoping what we’re expecting, what we’re really hoping against and yeah. What we reckon the next few years will entail or next few seasons.

Lucia Kelly: Cause of course, there’s going to be a long period before we can get any new episodes apart from the special.

Talia Franks: I, I really, really desperately hope with my entire full heart that I really, really entirely desperately hope with my entire full heart that Ncuti Gatwa’s TARDIS doesn’t have any white men in it. (Lucia starts cackling with laughter and Talia giggles)

Lucia Kelly: You know what, I second that and that’s actually to bring it back round, one of the things that we, one of the. Pieces of feedback that we got back from one of our listeners was that they really enjoyed the fact that this podcast was made by people that weren’t white men, (Lucia and Talia laugh) which yeah, I think I agree, (Lucia laughs while saying um) but yeah, it is. I, I would also love, I would also, I join you in that hope that,

Talia Franks: Yeah, I just want it so, so much desperately in my heart. I feel like I’m, I’m fine if we have a one-off companion that like appears in a single episode, I just don’t, I don’t want it. Also I know, I know that I’m pretty sure that people have said that Ncuti Gatwa’s season isn’t going to happen until 2024. That’s what I’ve heard. But I really, really would love it if it actually happens in early 2023 before the 60th. I don’t think it’s going to happen, but I want it to happen.

Lucia Kelly: It’s not gonna happen.

Talia Franks: No but like

Lucia Kelly: Just been like, I’ve been shaking my head just silently, just being like, no.

Talia Franks: No but would it be, wouldn’t it be great if they just snuck (Lucia laughs) a little season on us? No, maybe, maybe they won’t sneak a little season on us, but if they just snuck up a couple specials? Like they have Eve of the Daleks and, um, and Legend of the Sea Devils as as New Year’s and Easter specials, like just, just a couple specials early in the year without, (Lucia hiccups a giggle) with, before the 60th, just to establish Ncuti Gatwa as the Doctor.

Lucia Kelly: But then you’d have to do the regeneration in a special,

Talia Franks: Well,

Lucia Kelly: That’s not gon, that’s not gonna happen babe! (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: No! They did, no, that’s not true. They did David Tennant’s regeneration in Christmas Invasion.

Lucia Kelly: I suppose.

Talia Franks: I mean, it was not a great regeneration, but they did it. mean, like it, it was kind of a bad episode, (Lucia laughs) but it was, it was a regeneration in a special that’s all I’m saying. And, and the eighth Doctor was just a fucking movie. I’m just saying, like they can do,

Lucia Kelly: We’re not going to judge production decisions by the movie. I’m not, I’m not lowering us to that level. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: I’m not, I’m not saying I’m not saying, I’m just saying that there’s precedent for Doctors not having an entire season and having their regeneration be something other than the start of an entire season.

Lucia Kelly: Okay.

Talia Franks: Like we can have, we can have Ncuti Gatwa’s first episode, the, a Christmas or New Year special. And we can give him like Easter special or like a handful of other like random specials early in, in 2023, without having to make his first special, a shared episode with David Tennant for the 60th.

Lucia Kelly: I’m going to let you live in that hope. I won’t tear it down completely. Like I know I could. I’m going that. I’m going to give this one to you as a treat. As a special gift. But it’s not gonna happen.  (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: Why you gotta— (Talia begins to sing) Why you gotta be so rude. Don’t you know, I’m human too. Why you gotta be so rude.

Lucia Kelly: In my nature. (Lucia laughs)

Talia Franks: That song would have been so much better if it was gay. I’ve seen, I’ve seen some, I’ve seen some gay covers of it and like it’s so much better.

Lucia Kelly: It just lends to the lore of the song better. (Lucia laughs)

Lucia Kelly: It makes way more sense if it’s gay, like many things, it makes more sense if you make it more gay.

 (Transition wobbles)

Lucia Kelly: Honestly I feel like, I feel like we’ve talked enough about everything that we think that all of our RTD thoughts we’ve kind of said them.

Talia Franks: Yeah. The only thing that I realized that I want it, I just wanted to mention before we close out. Is that regarding whether or not we’re going to be covering classic episodes?

Talia Franks: Because that was something that has come up in that we’ve been questioned about for now the extent that we’re going to be covering classic episodes is just, I’m going to be doing live tweets of classic episodes on Twitter. And one thing that I am going to start doing is I’m going to put links to the threads so that you can read them on our website. So you will be able to find a page on our website that has links to the start of all of our threads.

Talia Franks: And you will see links to all of the live tweets threads that we’ve made about classic episodes and Lucia’s tweets about thirteens episodes and also all of my live tweets of current episodes as they’ve come out since the start of Flux. So Flux, Eve the Daleks, Legend of the Sea Devils.

Talia Franks: Also If you go to our website you’ll be able to see a post that I made about our one year anniversary, some thoughts and reflections. Any other closing thoughts, Lucia?

Lucia Kelly: I don’t think so. Thank you so much for coming with us on this journey. It’s been really exciting and fun and here’s another year.

Lucia Kelly: Yeah.

Talia Franks: Thanks y’all. Appreciate you.

Lucia Kelly: Thank you!

Talia Franks: Love, hugs.

Lucia Kelly: Bye!

Talia Franks: Bye! (Lucia laughs)

 (Transition wobbles)

Lucia Kelly: There’s this moment when you’re sure you’re about to die and then you’re born. It’s terrifying. Right now. I’m a stranger to myself. There’s echoes of who I was and a sort of call towards who I am. And I have to hold my nerve and trust all these new instincts, shape myself towards them. I’ll be fine in the end.

Lucia Kelly: Hopefully. Well, I have to be because you guys need help. And if there’s one thing I’m certain of, when people need help, I never refuse.

Lucia Kelly: Thank you for listening to The Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Podcast.

Talia Franks: We hope you enjoyed this adventure with us through space and time.

Lucia Kelly: You can find us elsewhere on the internet on Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram @WibblyPod. Follow us for more Wibbly Wobbly content.

Talia Franks: You can find out more information about us and our content on wibblywobblytimeywimey.net, and full transcripts for episodes at wibblywobblytimeywimey.net/transcripts.

Lucia Kelly: If you’d like to get in touch with us, you can also send us an email at wibblywobblytimeywimeypod@gmail.com.

Talia Franks: Please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and other platforms as it helps other people find us and our content.

Lucia Kelly: If you’d like to support us, you can send us a donation at paypal.me/wibblypod

Talia Franks: Special thanks to our editor, Dee who has been a vital member of the Wibbly Wobbly Team.

Lucia Kelly: That’s all for now. Catch you in the time vortex!